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14 40 764 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/186b5fa8b60cf59bd38c13a71667d4e8.png d48892d7b3106d62e20283720977cdbc Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hospital sign https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/d36c3dd171b4aed42cb27574b1e5f9fc.png 7da13743e0b23c54029b2ecf8d9b72f7 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Skidmore building in NYC Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/a672f0e7d7e6ea560c8f928aee09272d.png 5cae8512948e45d6686e6f00498afdad Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nursing students in NYC Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/bfe1cfadd69094873da67c8c10e6c207.PNG 86d6997cb765d8acbcad7f230c11a357 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/c58b894c6fea455fc073f7b0e208b4f3.m4a fd7612609852d8d62f36898a1ffc97db https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/bcc2dc7689602cdebf81459a580d7a45.pdf ff8b1ddea9e3970412e3bf6917e3ecc5 PDF Text Text Interview with Susan (“Gibbsie”) Gibbs '65 by Charlotte Bracklo '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. CHARLOTTE BRACKLO [00:00]: Um, so where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? SUSAN GIBBS [00:07]: I was from Wellesley, Massachusetts. CB [00:11]: Okay. And how did you hear about Skidmore or the program or what, what drew you to it? SG [00:18]: Oh Gosh. Well, I knew I wanted to become a nurse and I guess I just heard by word of mouth, um, about Skidmore's program and that it was supposed to be an excellent, excellent program. And I had a cousin who was, who went to Skidmore, but she, she was not in the nursing program, but I think I asked her a little bit about that and she said, ‘Oh yeah, it was supposed to be very good.’ So, so I applied. It was that easy. I didn't know a whole lot about it before I started. CB [00:50]: That's great. So, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? SG [00:55]: No. Nothing. Nothing at all, no. My mother apparently had wanted to be a nurse in her youth, but her father wouldn't let her, he didn't think that was appropriate so that the idea blew out the window. CB [01:07]: Okay. So, so what drew you to nursing in the first place? SG [01:12]: Uh, I don't, it's kind of hard to tell. I think, I think maybe I had seen some movie, I don't remember what it is at the moment where it was about nursing or about a nurse. And I thought that that was fascinating because originally for years and years I, I had wanted to be a preschool teacher and because I've, I've worked with children my whole life and I, and I, I knew I wanted to be a pediatric nurse, but I didn't know I wanted to be a nurse to begin with. But all of a sudden it just hit me like a bolt of lightning out of the blue that, oh, I'm going to be a nurse. So, I went on with it. CB [01:50]: Cool. And what was your educational background like going into Skidmore? SG [01:56]: Uh, I went to a school called Dana Hall, which is in Wellesley and got a very good, in my opinion, and very good general education there. So I was, I was ready for college, definitely. CB [02:11]: Great. And you kind of already got to this, but what, um, was there anything specific that drew you to Skidmore's program or was it really the fact that your cousin was there? SG [02:24]: No, we weren't that close. So it was, it was the nursing program that drew me to it �because it, it had a, just a really, really good, uh, what do you call it? Now my English is failing. They said good things about it. Yeah. CB [02:41]: Um, what was your sense of the program before, before you started there? SG [02:49]: Um, really nothing. I just knew that it was one, I think it was one of the top four schools in the country. And I knew I wanted to get a baccalaureate education and not just go to a three-year nursing school because that was, well, that had started a few years before, but, uh, it was really becoming quite, uh, the thing to do back then. And I know several people that I both knew and had heard of, uh, had gone to a uh, gone to a three year school and then went back afterwards to get their degree. So, I figured I might as well kill two birds with one stone. Yeah. And it sounded like a school I wanted to go to. Just generally speaking. CB [03:35]: Um, so tell me more about your experience in the program. Anything from classes, professors that stood out? Any specific memories? SG [03:47]: Well, we had a very, quite a stringent program because we, we had to declare our, uh, our major before we were admitted to Skidmore. Even, I mean, I was in, it was, it was a very stringent program. So, our freshman year, uh, all we had...We didn't have to take, I don't know what you guys do today, but we did have to take freshman English. That was, that was required of us. And, but all the other freshmen had to take a course in logic and we didn't have, everyone had to take it. They had to, there was no question. But you know, they couldn't get out of it. And we heard all these different questions they were asking and we kind of felt out of it in the dorm, because everybody was talking about logic, but we were talking about anatomy and physiology. No, but we had, we just had freshman English that year and um, uh, other than nursing, all the other things were nursing programs or uh courses, so, so we had our work cut out for us. And then we had, we were two years in New York City and we were there the summer after our sophomore year for eight weeks. So, it was actually a four and a half year program. But when we got back to campus on, on our senior, in our senior year, we were, we only had one nursing program, which was one nursing course, which was a, a sort of a highfalutin course about... It was, it was nothing clinical about it at all. Our clinical work was in New York City and then, then we were allowed to take just about whatever we wanted to when we got back onto campus. And we were allowed to take 400-level classes and certain things if they had room for us you know. And we weren't expected to do our, well, we were expected to do our best, but we weren't expected to be the best of the class. I remember taking a 400-level course with a bunch of, everybody was seniors, you know, and um, I was the only nurse in there and they were all English majors. And I remember one time one of the professors who was a full professor and had a doctorate, she asked a question about one of the, it was Shakespeare. And, uh, asked a question about one of his plays and everybody sat there like bumps on logs and I raised my hand and I answered the question. She said, ‘you're absolutely right.’ And then she said to them, ‘see girls, that, and that's a nurse.’ I'll never forget that. That's also that, that was the program. You know, we, we didn't have any choice except for our senior year. We had no choice as to what we were going to take. But that was okay because we knew we had to. That was �fine. We had some wonderful, wonderful, uh, teachers, especially in our, well in all of our years. But the, the freshman year, my favorite was, was our anatomy and physiology teacher. We had to dissect cats and we couldn't always find the organs or the veins or the nerves or whatever we were looking for. And we would say to her, her name was Eve Beverly Field. And we would say to her, ‘Ms. Field, uh, I can't find the,’ well, let's say the liver, which was not easy. I mean, that wasn't so hard to overlook. But anyway, and we said, ‘could you please show me where it is?’ And she would wave her hand over the corpse and she’d say, ‘right around in there.’ So, you were back to square one. No, but we had, we had very, we had very good teachers, I think. I think I liked all of them for, I liked all of them all of the time actually. Yeah, and of course the ones we had when we were in New York City were, they were all nurses themselves, except for one who was a psychologist and had a different course with us. So, a couple of the people that were teachers in New York, were uh, were Skidmore graduates themselves. Three of them were I think so that, that was nice. CB [07:54]: That's cool. So, tell me, tell me more about your time in New York. SG [08:00]: Oh boy. That was fun. It was, we stayed, our dorm was, belonged to the New York University Medical School and it was a 14-story building right on the East River and right near the hospital, which was the New York University Medical Center. And uh, we had the two top floors for Skidmore people. And there was no, I mean we just had, they were dorm rooms. There was no kitchen, there was no nothing. And I was just thinking of this this morning, I think I ate for dinner my entire two years down there I ate BLT sandwiches. There was a snack bar in the complex there and we all ate there. We didn't have any money for anything, you know. So, then there was a, there was a restaurant on 2nd Avenue, which was run by an Italian man who for some reason, I guess previous, lots of previous Skidmore students had gone in to eat at his place. His name was Leno and he loved Skidmore students. He had all the class pictures on the walls of his restaurant. And if we got very, very hungry and had no money, we could go in and eat for free and then we could pay him when he, when we got some money from our parents. We weren't allowed to work while we were students. That what that was, yeah, that was very, very strict. Because, uh, our, our instructors were responsible for what we did and we weren't allowed to practice any nursing, you know, on its own. So, so we, so we didn't have any money unless somebody's parents gave them a lot of money or something. And it was, it was an experience to live in the city. Uh, we had one in our class who was from, I don't think any of us, slept the first two nights we were there because it was so noisy. And we had, we had one girl who was from a small town in Missouri and when we got to Saratoga Springs, she couldn't sleep at night because of all the traffic on Union Avenue, which you people don't have as a problem that, but there was not a lot of traffic on Union Avenue. So, I don't think she slept the first week we were in New York. It was so noisy, but we got used to it. We got used to it. CB [10:23]: And how did your time in Saratoga compare to your time in New York? SG [10:28]: Oh, they were completely different. You just can't compare them. We grew up, we �really grew up quickly. We noticed a big difference when we got back to campus as seniors because, well of course what we...our field to study of course was, you know, we ran into a lot of really serious mind-boggling things then and uh, which we had to face up to. So, where the, the kids on campus were, they just were regular college students doing regular college... I'm sure plenty of them had serious things they had to think about and stuff. But it was, it was completely different. Then of course the pace of the life in New York City was completely different from, from uh, up in Saratoga. And we had a different campus that, that time, the campus you guys are on now was bought when we were freshmen. And I remember we had a day, the whole school got a day off, and we called it Woodlawn day and everybody went out to the place where the current campus is and we sawed down small trees and gathered brush and made big piles and lit bonfires for a whole day, which was helping so that they could take the first shovel and start working on the new campus. So, we were never there and it was nothing in our senior year either, everything on the old campus. So, so I've never had the, the privilege to be on the new one. Except that I've been at, to a couple of reunions, but never lived there or anything. CB [12:10]: So you just mentioned that you ran into a lot of mind-boggling situations. Is there anything that stands out that you would like to share? SG [12:180: Eh, well, the way that a lot of really sick patients, you know, and I, I remember, I remember the very first patient I had, who was an older man and I had to, I had to give him a shot. I had never given anybody a shot before, so I was petrified. And he was, he was getting a pain injection, so he, he was looking forward to the shot, which was good, but he was, his skin was like leather. And I didn't stick the needle in hard enough and it bounced back. And then I thought, oh, I'm giving up, I'm quitting, I'm quitting. And my instructor, who was a very demanding, wonderful person and she said, ‘Do it again,’ and the man groaned and all that. So, he got his shot. Oh, the first time was the worst. And I had a classmate, oh gosh, this was... We had never been on the wards before or anything. And she had a patient who wanted to use his urinal and she didn't know what a urinal was, and it was standing on the bedside table. And he said to her at that time, they were, they were metal, you see, so you couldn't see through them. I don't know what they are these days, probably plastic. But anyway, uh, he said to her, and here's this sweet young thing, right? So, he didn't want, he didn't, you know, he tried to be polite and he said, uh, ‘I would like that, please, is it full?’ And she said, ‘well, just a minute, I'll take a look.’ And she said, ‘Yes it is, where is your bouquet?’ She thought it was a vase with water in it and he had to tell her what it was. No, and I know one of, one of my first patients on our medical rotation died of cancer. That was not good. And my first patient that I had on pediatrics, who was a little baby, I don't remember what was wrong with him, I remember his name, but I don't remember what was wrong with him. I had him for two days and he died. You know, I was, what, 19 years old so that's, you know, a lot of stuff like that and you know, there were really, really sick patients, so... CB [14:31]: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Um, so moving on, like what was your path after Skidmore? �SG [14:41]: Well, I was offered a job at the University Hospital in pediatrics and I thought, oh, I thought that was very nice. But then I thought, I should probably try a different hospital, not be in the same place. So, I put in an application to Babies Hospital at Columbia and I wanted to, I wanted to work in New York, so that was fine, I moved there. And uh, I worked there for about three months and I hated it. And all the, almost all the nurses that were there, um, had gone to Columbia Presbyterian School and they were kind of snooty about it, you know, and they didn't like people from other schools and, and... Oh, I just, you know, of course I had to work Christmas, right? I knew I would have to do that because I was low man on the totem pole. And I thought, well, I was working nights and I thought, well at least I'll see the little kids wake up and see their stockings hanging on their beds, but when I went home, none of the children were awake. So that was horrible. So, I held out as long as I could. And then I went back down to University Hospital and asked the...spoke with the supervisor in pediatrics and I said, ‘is it still possible for me to come here?’ And she said, ‘I thought you'd be back.’ And uh, so I, I, you know, resigned from the job up there and the woman said, ‘Oh, you'll never get...and I'm not going to give you a good resume or anything.’ And I thought, well, I said, ‘It's okay. I have another job all lined up.’ So that's, you know. So, I was there for seven years and then I decided to come here and I've been here ever since. So, I've worked full time with no leave of absence for, well, a couple of months, you know, and that is at one point before I came over here, but I've worked 100% for 47 years. CB [16:37]: Wow. SG [16:39]: Yeah. On the bright side I haven't, I haven't gone on. We were encouraged to go on and get further degrees and everything, but of course we were told to work a couple of years before applying. And most of the grad schools, at that point, you had to have some job experience before you got in. So, uh, and a lot of my classmates did that and, but, but I, you know, I just wanted to be a nurse. I wanted to be at the bedside and I stayed at the bedside for 47 years and I've never regretted it. CB [17:10]: That's great. So, what made you move? Because now you live in, in Norway? SG [17:17]: Yes. Um, I was, um, well I had been here on vacation several times and I just really liked it here. So, I thought, well, I'd like to work over there for a year. And it took me almost a year to get all my papers together and, and get everything organized and get accepted to work here and everything. And I kept saying, oh, I can't go. That was a big step to take, you know, I thought, oh, I can't go because my grandmothers are both getting old and think if they die and everything. Of course, they didn't. So, and so I finally got my papers and with some courage together and came over and I was going to be here for a year, but that's, that's 47 years ago now. So, it's been a long year. CB [18:02]: Wow, that's, that's cool. Um, and how did you, while you worked, how did you find that what you had learned at Skidmore, uh, impacted or benefited you? SG [18:14]: Oh, I mean, I couldn't do anything. I couldn't, I knew nothing about nursing before I �started at Skidmore so it meant 350% of everything, if not 500%. Yeah. Every, everything, everything helped. Yeah. CB [18:27]: Oh, so how did the liberal arts education benefit you, do you think? SG [18:32]: Oh, I knew... I could talk about other things and I knew about other things than bedpans and urinals and blood transfusions and babies popping out and that kind of stuff. So could you, you know, you're dealing with people and people, normal people don't talk about, you know, medical or nursing conditions all the time. Then of course you do when you're working as a nurse. We were, there were a bunch of us who went out for dinner years ago over here to a restaurant. And we sat, I worked at work in an ICU here for 40 years, and that was, you know, it was pretty gory a lot of the time. And we sat there talking about blood and poop and you know, all sorts of horrible things and laughing and laughing. And finally, the people that were sitting at the next table, one of them leaned over and said, ‘Do you think you people could talk about something else, please?’ So, when you're together with a lot of people like that, you do talk a lot of job talk and stuff, but you have to know about art and history and literature and everything else that the world actually consists of in order to do this. CB [19:49]: Yeah. SG [19:49]: Yeah. CB [19:49]: Um, so the nursing program at Skidmore closed. SG [19:54]: Yeah. CB [19:54]: Do you remember learning about the closing of the program and how you felt about it? SG [20:00]: Oh, I think we were all devastated. Just devastated. I, do you know what year it closed? I can't remember. I graduated in '65. I'm thinking it maybe was in the early, early seventies. Do you know? CB [20:19]: Something around that. SG [20:21]: Yeah, I think so. No, I, I guess they sent a letter from, from Skidmore saying that they had to close and they had to close because people weren't applying as much anymore. And just at the, at the time, that we graduated in '65. I remember that. I had a classmate who was a math major and she got a job, bang, right out of college working for IBM. She didn't know beans about computers, you know, but she knew about math and she got the highest paying job of all the people in our class. And I think we were maybe 300, give or some, give it a little more than 300 classmates all together. And she got the highest paying job. Amazing. And you know, so girls were just beginning to be able to get jobs other than nurses, teachers, librarians, uh, you know, that kind of stuff, or, you know, good old, old fashioned women's jobs where people were beginning to branch out �and do something else. CB [21:24]: Yeah. SG [21:24]: So, but I remember getting that, oh, we're just, we were just devastated. Horrible. And it was expensive. It was getting more and more expensive to live in New York. Uh, I don't know if they lost those two dorm floors, but you know, there was a big faculty down there and they had to live someplace in New York and they had to pay the cost of living for New York City, which was not going down the drain. So, uh, I think that's one of the reasons they had. Well, there were several reasons they cut it out, but we didn't like it because we were really way, way at the top of the list of, um, nursing programs nationally. CB [22:05]: Yeah. So, did you communicate with like other Skidmore, Skidmore friends about it when you heard about the closing? SG [22:11]: Yeah, yeah, we did. And everybody was just thought, oh no, this is horrible. Just horrible. CB [22:17]: Yeah. Okay. Um, then I think on the, uh, when you first indicated your interest in participating in this project, yeah. I think you talked about a memory of the day of the JFK funeral. SG [22:33]: Oh yes. CB [22:34]: Do you want to tell me some more about that? SG [22:36]: Yeah, yeah, we were, we were in New York when he was shot. I remember exactly where I was in that building. I think everybody does that, you know, and, and uh, I was picking up my, I know this isn't the funeral, but I was getting, I was going to see what, if there was anything in my mailbox and the guy who manned the desk down at the, at the reception area said, ‘Did you hear the news?’ And I said, ‘No,’ I think there were two of us there, and we said, ‘No.’ And he said, ‘Kennedy just got shot.’ And, and we said, ‘Oh, come on, don't be funny that, that or that, that's not if you think that's funny, it's not a joke, you know.’ And he said, ‘No, it's not a joke and it's the truth.’ And then the funeral came and we were allowed to have the day off to watch it on television with the exception of two classmates who were on their public health, uh, rotation and they had patients waiting for them who needed to have a bath or have a treatment or something like that. And the, the, uh, the instructor would not let them have the day off and all the rest of us had the day off and we sat glued to the television. And so the, you know, these two poor girls, they were, they understood it. I mean, this, this is the reality of nursing. I mean, if it's Christmas, you work, if it's New Year's, you work, if it's the 4th of July, you work. Not every year, but you know that, that's the way it is. So that was very much brought home to them at that time. CB [24:06]: Yeah. �SG [24:07]: And people, of course, there were nothing, there was nothing called an iPhone or, you know, that you could look, you know, you could take it with you and watch it on TV as you were riding the subway to work or something. So, you had to be at home where there was a television, one television. CB [24:25]: Are there other, um, memories such as that one from either a particular class or a particular time that, um, you would like to share? Because as of now, I don't have any specific questions, but really any other... SG [24:40]: Well, let's see, uh, well that was, that was, uh, that was, we all were very much taken by that decision. And of course, the teacher was right. I mean these were sick people who were waiting, waiting for the nurse to come and uh, help them, right? Well, and I had this, speaking of public health, I had a patient. We had a 16-week rotation on public health and uh, we tramped the streets. We were placed in different areas of the city and I was in Brooklyn and I had a patient whose name was Molly and she was 80 years old and she lived in the childhood apartment that she had grown up with, in, with her two sisters. And the oldest, let's see... there was her, let me see, no. She was 82. She had an 80-year old sister who was younger who, um, sort of ruled the roost and she worked as a cleaning woman for a few families, so she had to make sure she was home when I came because Molly refused to take a bath. She refused. And uh, the sisters couldn't... no, no wait a minute. No, she was the oldest. She was the oldest one. So, she was the boss and the sisters said to her, the other sister was a, was a psychiatric patient and she laid, would not get out of her bed. And Molly tried to snatch the covers off of her and make her get up because she was the, the... She was tiny. Teeny weeny little skinny thing and the sisters were not paying any attention to her and, and they could not get her into a bathtub. So, I had to come once a week and give her a bath and she was like, uh, as nice as a kitten. When I arrived, I had to walk up a flight of about 25 stairs to get up to their apartment. She never recognized me. Not one single time for 16 weeks, and her sister would say, ‘Come down Molly, the nurse is here.’ And I would go up and I would get this little lady all...she had a thing about safety pins. Everything on her was pinned together. And I had to get all of those safety pins out and I had to get her into the bathtub. And every now and then I had to wash her hair. She didn't like that and she was all, she was as calm and as nice as anything. But the, and then she'd give me a big hug when I left and she'd say, ‘Oh, thank you and see you next week.’ And I'd come the next week. She never knew who I was. That was something, that was really, it was like taking care of a child. It really was, you know. Uh, let me see what else. Uh, we had a good time in New York, outside of the nursing. We've, as I said, we had no money. So, one of the things we used to do was to take the Staten Island Ferry, which cost a nickel in each direction. And if you went right out back again, it was a nickel round trip. So, we used to do that a lot. And of course, just walking the streets and looking at people and things was, was an education in itself. But it was quite an experience being in New York City. I would never move back there again now that, that's for sure. But I lived there for nine years altogether. So that was a, a...and Skidmore and the campus of course was completely different. Do you still have Yaddo? Do you know what Yaddo is? Okay. It's out at the end of Union Avenue, past the race track. And it was a huge, it was somebody's estate originally and then they turned it into �an artists' colony. It was a huge, huge tract of land with an enormous mansion in the middle of it. And all these artists, painters, and that kind of artist went and lived there and did their work and everything we used... And we were allowed to go out there and uh, and walk around the grounds and everything. So, we were there a lot. So, I don't know if, I wonder if it's still, have to check that out if it's still there. CB [28:53]: I will, yeah. SG [28:53]: It's out past the race track. CB [28:54]: Okay, I'll look into it. SG [28:57]: Oh, and we had something which was a tradition that, not just for nurses, but there was a bucket, which was called the bucket. And that was, the freshman class... each dorm was, they had a big competition and each dorm was try, had to get ahold of the bucket and hide it in their dorm, and then the other dorms would come ‘round rooms, this went on for the whole year and attack the dorm that had the bucket and try to find the bucket and take it to their dorm. So, this was something that was, oh, this was wonderful fun. We went, you know, this went on for a whole year, but that had nothing to do with nursing. This was everybody. CB [29:34]: Yeah. That's so fun though. Great. Well, thank you very much. SG [29:41]: You're most welcome. CB [29:42]: I'm going to stop the recording at this point. SG [29:45]: Okay. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Susan Gibbs '65 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Charlotte Bracklo '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:59 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Susan Gibbs '65 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/67b144764f24db7586044aa8b45764c1.jpg 5be0716b75515114b57b0de61eb85f2c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pat Loftman, May 23, 2016 (portrait) https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/609bad4d65366e068f899d5ea6f29d29.jpg 0bcfaa024da4b0494445d1bd1dc83f2f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pat Loftman ACNM Fellows Induction, May 23, 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/70a0804eeab16d011581caf4de53894f.m4a 472c6612c54edacaf47be1d20baf8261 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/08311c540eff8c367af01343d9e61d69.pdf ec5cdbc55f7312dd3d6a66f604143118 PDF Text Text Interview with Patricia Loftman '71 by Skidmore Student [Unknown], COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. SKIDMORE STUDENT [00:00]: Could you start by saying your name and your class year? PATRICIA LOFTMAN [00:02]: My name is Patricia Loftman. I graduated in 1971. SS [00:10]: Okay. And, where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore’s Nursing program. PL [00:15]: Where did I attend high school? SS [00:17]: Where were you born? Where did you grow up? PL [00:19]: Oh, where was I born. Oh, my family immigrated to the US from Jamaica in the Caribbean. When I was about eight years old, actually my, my parents were here in the state, I was raised by my grandparents in Jamaica. SS [00:36]: And where did you move to, when you moved to the states? PL [00:40]: Oh, we moved to Washington, D.C. where my dad was attending dental school at Howard University. SS [00:48]: Okay. did your family, so your dad was a dentist, did other family members have a background in medicine and nursing? PL [00:55]: No, he's actually the only one who has, any, any background in the healthcare field, everybody else is in other industries. SS [01:06]: And so, what was your educational background before you joined the program? Like did you, did you work before? Did you, go to school? PL [01:17]: Eventually we migrated to New York where I went to school, completed middle school and high school in the Bronx. In New York City. SS [01:30]: And did you always know you wanted to be a nurse? What drew you to the program? PL [01:36]: Well, when I entered Skidmore in 1966, my plan was to go into medicine. I entered as a pre-med major, completed my first year. My first year went fairly well, by the end. By the beginning of my sophomore year there was just something about the socialization into medicine that was just not appealing. And I began to look at other avenues and it seemed that nursing, would be more cognizant with who I was as an Individual and in terms of my interactions with human beings. So, I transferred my premed credits into nursing. SS [02:25]: And what about Skidmore, why did you choose here over other programs? �PL [02:30]: Actually, I didn't choose Skidmore. There were, the 60s was a very interesting time politically. It was very, very difficult for African Americans to get a decent quality education, especially in colleges and universities. And at that time, it was in the middle of the height of the civil rights era and there was a move to integrate a lot of the colleges and universities as a way for students of color, specifically African Americans to gain access to higher education. And at the time, a lot of the Ivy League schools were beginning to open up their doors and Skidmore was one of them. And so, my guidance counselor in high school actually chose it for me. My family didn't know anything about it. I didn't know anything about Skidmore, didn't know where Skidmore was, didn't know anything about it, but he thought it would be good for me. So, he chose it and I was accepted and I went. SS [03:28]: Wow, that’s got to be kind of intimidating, to go somewhere that you don’t know about at all and pretty far from home. PL [03:35]: It was. It was very intimidating. SS [03:39]: So, what was it like being in the program? What was it like being part of that new generation of women and people of color who were allowed to be in these programs? What was that like? PL [03:52]: It was, it actually was very, very traumatic and very painful. At the time, in 1966, Skidmore was an all-women's college. It was a small liberal arts college. One of those seven sister schools that you, you may or may not have heard about that existed at that time. It would have included Skidmore, Bryn Mawr, Smith, those kinds of schools. And Skidmore was somewhat smaller. If my memory serves me correct, there were less than 2000 women on campus and of those 2000 only, there were only seven students of color and they were actually all African Americans. My incoming freshman class had the largest number, four of us came in. There was one sophomore, her name was Linda Taliaferro. She has since passed away. There was one junior and one senior. So, it was very, very isolating actually. SS [04:53]: Did you find it was difficult to socialize and be a member - did you not feel much like a member of the community? PL [05:00]: No, we really were not. We were not welcomed. As a matter of fact, the four of us really stuck together for our own emotional health and sanity. At that time, because they were unisex schools, the surrounding male schools such as Williams and Wesleyan, they were all male at the time. So, by noon on Fridays, the campus was deserted because everyone had transportation alternatives that we didn't have. This was our first exposure to money and to wealth and to privilege, and to power. And we were not prepared for that at all. So, by noon on Friday, there was this huge campus and we were the only ones on it because everybody was gone. So, it was not, it was not a good time. It was not a good time for us. �SS [05:57]: I’m so sorry that that was your experience. Yeah, I mean I can't fathom because I have not been in that position, but I believe that that must've been so awful and painful and I'm just thankful that you are willing to talk to me about it. So, thank you so much. So, um, in terms of academics, what was the course load like? What were the classes that you are taking for the nursing program? PL [06:26]: So, the curriculum for the nursing program was your standard curriculum that you would find in any nursing program then and today. I have to say in retrospect, because I've always wondered what my preparation was like academically compared to others. I can say that Skidmore prepared me extremely well. I mean, I still remember my faculty. I remember Doris Diller. I remember Jean, what was Jean's last name? I don't remember her name, but I remember my faculty, they were absolutely wonderful. We had a rigorous course of study and I think that it, I think academically it most definitely prepared me quite well. SS [07:14]: Um, do you have any memories about Agnes Gelinas? PL [07:15]: She, I think she was before me. I know the name, but I never had her. SS [07:20]: Okay. Yeah, I can't remember when she retired. It might've been ’61 or ’62. So that was right before you. PL [07:29]: Yeah, I came with Jean Campbell, Doris Diller. I'm trying to remember some of the other people, but, Jean Campbell and Doris still, I remember vividly. SS [07:39]: Do you have any favorite classes or favorite memories with them? PL [07:45]: I don't know if you know, Doris Diller I remembered I had her for pediatrics and I had her for a peds and something else, I don't remember, but Doris Diller, her background had been in the military and she ran us like we were in the military and she was rigid and she was strict. I mean, she was by the book, but boy do I, do I respect her now and appreciate her, because I, you know, at the time you don't realize what you're being prepared for and it's only after you've had that experience and reflected back that you recognize that you, that she prepared you very, very well. SS [08:34]: That's great. Do you remember, can you tell me a little bit about going to New York City for that portion of the program? PL [08:41]: The program. I loved it. I loved getting back to the city. Oh my God. That was one of the perks and benefits that put me in nursing, I knew that I would get back to the city for two years and it was just wonderful. We lived in a dorm, we lived in two dorms. The first one was on 20th Street, East 20th Street between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. And it was an older building that was, the norm at the time. But it was, it was just really nice being back in New York and just not being isolated and the having the flexibility to just move around. Plus, I was from the city, so I was able to get back and see my friends and my family. It was just really nice being back in New York. And then after about, maybe �about a year, a new dorm was constructed on 38th Street. So, we moved from Fahnestock on 20th Street to 38th Street. The newer building was more aligned with the newer construction that was going on at the time. Fahnestock was one of your older buildings. It was very homely. And so, it had a nice quality to it. The newer dorm was just like a regular building. But it didn't have the architecture that the old dorm had and it just didn't have the home feel that the old dorm had. But you know, it was just a dorm and we made it work. SS [10:15]: Are there any memories you - that come back to you from your time in New York? PL [10:21]: Nothing that really stands out because here again, there was one other student of color, her name was Gloria Hairston, and she too has made her transition and passed on. So, it was just Gloria and myself in the dorm and even in New York, I'm talking about now as a student, we really were not, hang on one second... Even in the dorm we would essentially go to class and then just disappear because even back here in New York, we were not part of the Skidmore nursing program back here in New York. So, it was really nice to be back in New York. All I had to do was go to school, go to class, you know, do my work. But I didn't have to worry about being isolated anymore. SS [11:18]: So, I’m excited to talk to you about your career after you left, Skidmore. What path did you take? PL [11:23]: So, once I graduated, I worked as a nurse in the emergency room and the intensive care unit at one of the public hospitals here in New York called Lincoln Hospital. And I don't know if you've seen the movie, The Godfather? SS [11:40]: I haven't. PL [11:41]: Okay. So, in that movie, The Godfather, there is a scene where, Marlon Brando gets shot and he's taken to a hospital. Well, the hospital that was used in The Godfather movie was where I worked, and I was there when they were shooting that particular scene. And it was so interesting because that was, Lincoln Hospital, it was named after President Abraham Lincoln. It was previously a home for formerly enslaved African Americans. And after slavery was ended, it was converted into a hospital and named Lincoln Hospital. As a matter of fact, I worked at Lincoln before I actually took my nursing boards. In those days, and I think it still exists, after you finish your first formal year of nursing [education], you could take the licensed practical nursing boards and work as a practical nurse. I certainly was not privileged and I didn't have, my family didn't have money, so I actually had to do that. After I completed my first year of nursing, I took my licensed practical nursing exam, passed, and worked as a licensed practical nurse during the summer so that I could get money to go back to school in the fall. And then, once I completed my full nursing studies, then of course I took my registered nursing boards, and passed those. So, I had already begun to work at Lincoln as a practical nurse. So, of course, once I passed my registered nursing boards, I just continued. SS [13:25]: And what path did you take, I know you’re a Nurse Midwife now. So how did you �get there? PL [13:28]: Now that is really interesting how that transition occurred. I worked at Lincoln for many years. Then I became a mom and it was difficult for me to do the night schedule and the weekend schedule, I wanted something that was more Monday through Friday, nine to five. So, I transitioned and worked for a foster care agency as the nurse who coordinated the medical care for children who were in foster care. And I did that for a while. And while I was doing that, I learned about midwifery. I had always, always loved OB. I mean always when I was in nursing school, OB and peds were my two favorites. And those were the ones that I really excelled in. I learned about midwifery and I said, ‘oh, I had not known about midwifery.’ I knew about midway from when I was growing up in Jamaica because in the Caribbean, midwives are utilized a lot. But I didn't know that there were midwives in the U.S. and when I learned that there were midwives in the U.S., I said, ‘that's what I'm going to do.’ So, I applied to Columbia University. They had a program in the graduate school of nursing and I applied and was accepted. I went to midwifery school for two years, from 1980 to 1982. During that time, going to midwifery school was very, very challenging because, back in the 80s, the only way you could do midwifery education was full time. That has subsequently changed. You can do midwifery school now part time. But in those days, back in the 70s and 80s, you had to go full time and it was two full years, four academic quarters, four academic semesters. I always tell people, had I known, had I had a crystal ball and knew how rigorous that program was, I don't know that I would have ever started. But once I was in it, I was in it and I vowed to see it through to completion. And I'm glad I did. But it was probably one of the most grueling courses of studies I have ever undertaken. SS [15:46]: And then so, what was your career like after becoming, getting your licensure for midwifery? PL [15:52]: It was, it was wonderful. It was absolutely wonderful. I went to work at Harlem Hospital, which is also one of the public hospitals here in New York. I have always vowed to work in the public system. That's where most people of color are, most underserved populations are. And historically these populations have believed that because they are poor that they have to accept second class health care, second class medical care. And I went, I, so I've always worked in public systems because I always wanted to dispel this myth that because you receive your healthcare in a public institution, that you're getting second class medical care because that for me was not the case. And so, I went to Harlem. Harlem was my, was my only, employer. I stayed there for 30 years. I went in as a brand-new midwife and left as a retiree and it was just absolutely wonderful. During those 30 years the women taught me how to be a good midwife. I had the opportunity to see health care, to see many things come and go. I was there when HIV started. I was there when HIV became an issue for women. At Harlem Hospital we took care of the first pregnant women with HIV in New York. I was there and eventually ended up developing an expertise in taking care of those women, HIV infected women, and women whose pregnancies were complicated by drug use. I really developed an expertise. In the 80s and 90s, that's pretty much what I did. And then, once crack and HIV somewhat subsided, I branched out into the total range of women's �reproductive health care and that's what I did until I retired. It was really a wonderful, wonderful career. So now I am more involved with the administrative part. I'm on the board of the American College of Nurse Midwives, which is the professional organization for midwives. I'm also now the chair of one of the committees in our organization which is called the Midwives of Color. Our goals and objectives are to promote the recruitment, the retention and the graduation of underrepresented racial and ethnic groups - primarily African American, Latinos, Asians, indigenous Native American students, and Alaskan Native students. So that's what I'm doing now. SS [18:55]: Do you see a big change in the field, since you’ve moved to the more administrative side of things? PL [18:58]: Well, midwifery has changed considerably from when I was educated. First, the amount of information that students learn today is almost quadruple, but I had to learn in 1980. Healthcare has changed, technology has changed. Health care, the amount of information the students now have to learn is completely different. I learned about HIV and chemical dependency and drug use as a professional, whereas students are now learning about it now. The, clinical expertise of midwives has expanded. When I was a student, we were primarily relegated to prenatal care, labor and delivery and we did some reproductive women's health care. Now we are doing just a lot of procedures. Midwifery practice has expanded into midwives doing sonograms, midwives, do a lot of the technical skills that you would see a lot of physicians doing. We do terminations those of us who, acquire the education and the skills. So, midwifery in terms of the practice has just changed dramatically from when I was a student and even a beginning practitioner. SS [20:27]: Um, how do you think your Skidmore education helped you with your career? PL [20:29]: Well, in terms of my preparation, it was certainly very valuable. I mean, I, when I walked into Lincoln Hospital as a nurse, I was prepared. I knew exactly what to do, and actually, I actually excelled. But I also think it was very helpful when I went to Columbia, when I went to graduate school. That was also very helpful. So, I mean, as traumatic as my undergraduate days were at Skidmore in terms of my ability to successfully navigate graduate education, it helped. SS [21:05]: And remember we spoke a little bit about this, but you didn't seem to have too much of an opinion about the closing of the program? PL [21:11]: You know, I don't know anything about the closing of the program. When I finished Skidmore, I just wanted to run away. I didn't want to have anything to do with Skidmore. I just wanted to get out. And when I got out, that's exactly what I did. I didn't look back, period. I didn't go back to Skidmore. I didn't go back to campus for many years. I think I first went back for a reunion maybe about 10 years ago. I had not been back to Saratoga and I hadn't done anything with Skidmore for many years. It was just that traumatic. So, I didn't know when the school closed. I learned about the school closing maybe five or six years after the school closed. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't read about it. I really just wanted to drop off the face of the earth as far as Skidmore was concerned. �SS [22:01]: What was it like being back? PL [22:05]: Well, the biggest thing of course is the campus. I was raised on the old campus, whereas everything is now on the new campus. They were just building the new campus when I left. So, the new campus is completely new for me. My days were spent on the old campus and I have to tell you, I loved the old campus. The old campus was beautiful. I don't know if you've had any contact with the old campus, but we loved the old campus. We loved those buildings. Oh my God, they're just so gracious. For me the new campus is just brick and stone and it's cold. SS [22:42]: Yes, I do have those feelings, especially in the dead of winter. PL [22:49]: Yeah, the old campus was not like that. I mean the old campus was just really, really warm and I missed, I’m not even talking about just the building, just the whole feel of the campus, it's completely different. That campus had a sense of community where that I'd never, I mean by the time I graduated, maybe, I think McClellan was finished, Kimball was finished. I think there were maybe only two buildings and none of us ever wanted to go to the new campus. So, we were glad we didn't have to. SS [23:37]: I guess my last question would be, what does it mean to you to be a nurse? PL [23:40]: Well, I have a background in nursing but I'm not a nurse. I'm a midwife. And those are two completely distinct and separate professions. They do completely different things. And that's something that we find ourselves having to explain all the time. It's hard to explain. Nursing, is a distinct profession. Midwifery is a distinct profession. Midwives are directly responsible for patient care. In other words, we have to assess and make decisions. Not that nurses don't, but it's a different kind of decision. So, while my background is in nursing, my profession is that of a midwife. SS [24:39]: What does that mean to you? What is your purpose as a midwife? PL [24:40]: My purpose is to number one, acquire the information, the knowledge and the skills that I need to render the best medical care that I can for women. And I think that I was very successful in that. One of the hallmarks of midwifery, we talk about this a lot, is that midwives listen to women but we do a lot more than just listen. We literally do a lot, in addition to just what you would expect us to do in terms of having the knowledge, having the information and having the technical skills, we do a lot of teaching and a lot of education. And that is just so important and it's not valued. Teaching, counseling, educating patients... It's not valued in medicine, but that's really what, what individuals need to keep themselves healthy. I think the bulk of Americans, if they understood that their own health is literally in their hands, if they only had the information. And so, I spent a lot of time teaching, you never left my office without a handout about something, never. And we would talk about it on the next visit. You never left me without having something in your hands to read that was pertinent to you. And the women valued that because no one had ever taken the time to talk to them. And that's what they loved, is �talking. Because it says that you were engaged in their healthcare and, one of the problems is that people, both providers and, and women, tend to think of health care in one direction - from the provider to the patient. But it's, it's bidirectional. Patient to provide, provider to patient. But we have socialized Americans to believe that it's unidirectional. Provider to patient. And so, they have, they have accepted that dynamic, that relationship. And so, to have someone like midwives who say, ‘no, no, this is a by directional relationship here. This is a relationship.’ And that's another thing when I provide health care, it's a relationship. It's building a relationship. By the time, for example, by the time I retired, I was attending the birth of children I had brought into this world. I was now attending their children's births. That was amazing for me, to know that I had attended the birth of someone and 18 or 20 years later here I was, that this individual is now a young adult and they have entrusted me with attending the birth of their child. SS [27:47]: That’s incredible. PL [27:48]: It was. The first time it happened, it was an absolutely weird feeling. I remember the grandmother, this woman came. I walked into the room, they didn't know that they had me in common. And so, the grandmother, who was my patient, pointed to me, I mean, she was literally in my face pointing as she was trying to get, the words out. She kept saying, “it's you, it's you, it's you, it's you”. And I didn't know what she was talking about. And then by the time she calmed down, she explained that I had been her midwife and had attended her birth. This was her child whose birth I was now attending. SS: Wow that is so great, thank you for sharing that with me. PL [28:33]: Yeah, no. You know, I look back, even though it's been almost 10 years since I've retired because, I live close by in the neighborhood, I see the women all over the city. There's no place I can go in New York as big as New York is. I cannot tell you how many times I am literally walking the streets and someone says to me, ‘Hi Ms. Loftman, you don't remember me, you were my midwife, you did this, you did that.’ I mean, I'm in Costco, I'm on the bus. It's just amazing. SS [29:09]: Wow. That's great. That actually used to happen to my grandfather a lot. He was a neurosurgeon. PL [29:15]: I didn't hear you. SS [29:16]: I said that used to happen to my grandpa whenever we were out, he was a neurosurgeon and people would always come up and say the same thing to him. PL [29:26]: Yeah. that's when you know you've made a mark. That's when you know, if you close your eyes and make your transition today, you left your mark behind in the world. SS: [29:40]: I think that's all the questions I have for you if you want to go ahead and stop recording. �� Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Patricia Loftman '71 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:46 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Patricia Loftman, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Patricia Loftman '71 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/62ba7e0aa9205173d4fdc56de0f5798f.JPG 9e0b0b910b2bc1c9de1669a066c47184 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/46417c11384a8690d42e958c43fbfac4.jpg 7ccc4e82547e6c6dfb1b43aee7a72f82 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Nursing Program brochure cover, 1962. Rory Pond '65 (left); Janet Allan '64 (right) https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/c046380e4468d6b65e635a1e0f9200fc.mp4 74b6075b34c0d6ca7001d6c890f4959b https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/439b811781c7a4c2f5b911171c1715a2.pdf 9ec19f3d8753832f66779ea64c69dd0f PDF Text Text Interview with Janet Allan '64 by Emma Griffin '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, April 15, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been reordered, removed and grammar corrected by the interviewee for ease of reading. EMMA GRIFFIN [0:00:47]: Where were you from when you decided to attend Skidmore’s Nursing program? JANET ALLAN [0:00:52]: I grew up in Roslyn, Long Island and attended Roslyn High School. EG [0:01:02]: Second question. Did your family have a background in the field of medicine? JA [0:01:07]: No, no my parents had no medical background...I'm a first generation American. My parents immigrated in 1930 from Scotland and they left school in ninth grade. They believed that education was the path to a better life for their children, therefore, they supported my goal to attend college. EG [0:01:24]: Gotcha. Third question, what was your educational background before you joined this program or your work history? JA [0:01:54]: Aside from babysitting, I worked age 12 until high school graduation as a page in the town library, The William Cullen Bryant Library (he lived in Roslyn and was a poet and newspaper editor). I had a social security number from age 12. I worked after school 3 days a week from 4-6 and 40 hours per week in the summer. I was able to save most of my earnings for college. Though Roslyn was a public high school, it was considered an academic high school. 95% of my graduating class went to college. If I hadn’t been a nursing major, Skidmore would have given me two years of college credit for my work in HS. EG [0:02:21]: Gotcha, wonderful, wow! Um, let’s see...ok, part two is program questions, what drew you to the Skidmore program? Why did you want to go? JA [0:02:44]: When I met with my high school guidance counselor in my junior year, he offered only two options for female students; nursing or teaching. I was very shy so the thought of teaching scared me, so I chose nursing. The guidance counselors were woefully behind the times not only in career options for women but about nursing education. He said, ‘Well, you just have to go to a diploma school to get your nursing.’ I wanted to go to college and knew there were nursing programs at certain colleges. This goal was supported by my former babysitter who had graduated from Adelphi University’s nursing program. She encouraged me to apply to several college programs in the State. So, I applied to several schools including Skidmore. I didn’t really think I would be accepted at Skidmore (again my Counselor said that no woman from Roslyn had ever been accepted) or could afford the cost. I loved Skidmore’s nursing program which had an excellent reputation but I had no hope of being admitted. Three of us were accepted �(two nursing majors and an English major). I had only applied to New York State schools because I had earned a New York State Regents Scholarship and a New York State Nursing Scholarship, both applied only to New York State schools. New York State offered a 4-year Regents curriculum to all high schools which required extensive exams at the end of each year. Long story short, I was accepted at Skidmore with a full 4-year scholarship as a work study student. I worked in the library as a freshman and in Health as a nursing aide as a senior. This scholarship and the funds from the Regents scholarships enabled me to attend Skidmore EG [0:04:51]: Wow, that was all determination there! JA [0:04:55]: Well, I was very fortunate. EG [0:04:59]: Yes. Well, let’s see...you kinda talked a little bit about your sense of the program before it started, so it was, I would assume, something that you were very excited about JA [0:05:14]: Yes, I had thought a lot more about nursing and became more excited seeing the curriculum that Skidmore offered as well as the two clinical years in New York City. EG [0:05:39]: Fair enough. Um, tell me what it was like in the program, what was the structure of the program and what classes did you take? JA [0:05:46]: Okay. Well, it was a totally lockstep curriculum. The first year was nearly all science with one required Freshman English course. The sophomore and junior years were in New York City and the courses were year-long with no summer breaks. I don't know if you've had a chance to go to the, archivist and see the material I sent. This was the 1960-1964 curriculum. EG [0:05:50]: Yes, yes. JA [0:06:00]: Okay. So, freshman year involved a year of chemistry, a year of anatomy and physiology that including dissecting a cat in a year-long lab, a semester of microbiology that also included a lab, a semester of psychology and a semester course in nursing history. Lastly, we had an English course required of all freshman. Our schedule was so packed that we had little time for extracurricular activities. We had the cat dissection for 3 hours. We kept our cats in plastic bags in large garbage cans. I had a roommate who was not a nursing major and she wouldn't let me in the room after lab until I showered because I smelled so much from the formaldehyde, it was a very tough academic year but successfully completing the coursework made us all proud, totally bonded and beginning to feel like nurses. The second year and the third year we were in New York City because of the wide range of clinical opportunities offered. We were mostly at NYU hospital in our junior year except for a week at the VA for a TB rotation. In our junior year we rotated to Cornell Medical for maternity, NY Psychiatric for psych, NYU for leadership and in the summer Community Health at the NYC VNA (my placement in Little Italy) or the city Public �Health Clinics. It was a fabulous two years of incredible clinical experiences and the joy of living and exploring New York City. Grateful patients would leave tickets to the theater or concerts at the nursing faculty office in NYU Hospital. One could see a play or attend a concert almost any evening. We mostly didn’t because we were exhausted and had to study. EG [0:08:06]: Oh, keep going, yeah. JA [0:08:09]: I think we were about 30 of us that eventually got through the first year and could continue into the sophomore year in NYC which began in the fall. That summer, I worked as an aide at a county hospital on Long Island. It was a good experience and I learned a lot. To house us in New York City, Skidmore rented two floors in the NYU medical student dorm, which was a 12-story building on the East River at 30th and 1st Avenue. We also housed the NYU female medical students, all 4 of them. How things have changed. The sophomore 12-month curriculum involved skills lab to learn basic nursing skills and rotations in adult medicine, pediatrics and a week-long TB rotation at the VA. We had didactic classes with each rotation. These courses were given in a classroom at the Hospital. We did all of our clinicals (except TB) at University Hospital on 20th St and Second Ave. We walked the 10 blocks down 1st Ave, past Bellevue Hospital and the VA to University Hospital. NYU Hospital was private so we worked with community-based MDs who were very kind to us. We did have to give them our chairs in the chartroom. The skills we learned were pretty basic (bed making, bathing, giving injections, changing a dressing, taking vital signs, and transfer of patients from bed to chair. These seem minor skills compared to what students learn today. We were at the hospital every day for lecture and clinical. The hospital allowed us to eat lunch. Since we did not have any eating facilities at our dorm, we all ate huge lunches and took food back to the dorm for dinner. In the morning students either skipped breakfast or ate cold cereal and powdered milk like I did with my roommates. I can’t stand powdered milk to this day. The junior year 12-month curriculum covered leadership (being a head nurse), maternity, psych and community health. I was placed at the Greenwich Village office of the NYVNA (the premier visiting nurse service in the country) and other classmates were at Public Health clinics. I loved the experience visiting patients in apartments above night clubs, restaurants or stores. My classmate and I took a 30-minute bus ride from our dorm to the office. One patient whom I visited lived in a coal cellar. He had had TB and I had to administer an injectable medicine to him each week. We had a wonderful experience, wonderful patient stories about living in Greenwich. That summer was exceptionally hot so the faculty gave us salt tablets to take every day. At that time, Skidmore did not have Psych and OB faculty. So, we had OB at Cornell Medical Center with the Cornell nursing students and were taught by their faculty. So, we were three Skidmore students paired with seven Cornell University students and we did three months of OB. We had experiences in labor and delivery, post-partum care and the �nursery. Then we went to Columbia Presbyterian and did the same thing, joining the Columbia Presbyterian students for three months of Psych. One outstanding experience was accessing the babysitting service run by the Cornell Nursing program. You could sign up to babysit any day of the week and we often took care of UN diplomats’ children. It was a wonderful experience and I had several regular customers, one was a famous pastel artist. We all returned to the Skidmore campus for our senior year. We had 30 credits to take to complete our degree. The courses had to be in the liberal arts (social sciences, literature and history). We also had a 3 credit nursing issues course. Most of us were hungry to learn something besides nursing and expand our minds and knowledge. My roommate and I poured over the catalog and we picked out everything we wanted to take, most of which were, literature, art courses and American Studies. We ran into problems with upper division courses that required freshman or sophomore prerequisite courses. We needed upper division courses and didn’t want to take the lower-level courses. In trying to convince faculty that we could handle the upper division courses, we found faculty were very uninformed about the nursing major. For example, great doubt was expressed that we could handle the courses and I was told ‘well, all you have been doing is changing bedpans for two years.’ It was pretty shocking, especially what we perceived as a very pejorative or antiquated view about nursing students. But we persisted and many faculty albeit reluctantly agreed to let us take their courses and we all did fine. I loved every course that I took and surprised myself by loving the course on The Romantic Poets. I still have the books. I would just make one other comment. It was difficult returning to campus after two years in New York City. Becoming nurses changed us from girls into very dedicated women. We missed two years of ordinary campus life and I guess had outgrown putting cottage cheese in faculty mailboxes and fraternity beer parties. We had seen babies delivered, walked the streets of New York City providing nursing services in tenements and coal cellars and stayed with patients who died. We were in New York City, in a dorm and there was really no college life. You know, we dated some of the medical students, but there was no real effort on the part of Skidmore to create links with some of the colleges in New York City so that we could have more of a, more of a college life than we had. EG [0:16:29]: Yeah, well, it’s definitely not your normal college experience but it sounds like, wow, transformative. JA [0:16:39]: Yes, it was transformative. The program was excellent and well prepared us for clinical practice after graduation. Skidmore was very well thought of nationally. We had great faculty. EG [0:17:40]: Well, with that, um, let’s, let’s move a little beyond Skidmore. What was your path after Skidmore? What did you do? JA [0:17:48]: My first position after graduation was on the male medical unit in the Bullfinch �building (birth place of ether) at Mass. General hospital. Because BS educated nurses have less clinical experience than Hospital or Diploma educated nurses, the Skidmore faculty urged us all to work for at least a year in a hospital to become more proficient in technical nursing skills. I loved my first position. Despite jitters about not being a “skilled nurse” (meaning having done specific skills like catheterizations over and over) and some mild hazing by the Mass grads, I felt very competent in my skills at the end of a year. The unit I worked on was housed in one big room, with 16 beds, one private room (for alcohol detox) and a nursing desk in the middle of the room. This set up was so different from today’s units. The patients had little privacy. Also different was that most patients had had heart attacks and were hospitalized for a month. We really got to know our patients and their families. One story: A few weeks into working in the unit, a patient asked me what kind of nurse I was. I was startled and wondered if I had made a mistake. I asked him what he meant, and he stated that I didn’t have a black band on my nursing cap (all Mass General diploma grads and the majority of nurses in the hospital had black bands on their hats). After a year in Boston, I decided to see the country and applied for and was hired by the San Francisco Visiting Nurse Association. My sister and I trained across country and set up living in San Francisco. She was a secretary. Because I didn’t own a car, I was assigned to a walking district in an area called the Tenderloin. It was in downtown San Francisco filled with SROs, bars, and shabby restaurants and stores. The average age of my caseload was 85. They were elderly residents living alone on Social Security or pensions in large buildings of SROS. It was a wonderful experience and I loved San Francisco. After three years at the VNA, I decided I wanted to get a master's degree. So, I applied to UCSF and got a master's in Public Health or Community Health and a post-masters in teaching (believe it or not). I loved the master’s program and found that I liked teaching. In 1969 after completing the post-masters, I joined the undergraduate faculty at UCSF. I was fortunate to be hired on a Division of Nursing Grant with the goal of exploring the effects of teaching health science students together. I taught CH and Leadership in the senior year of the 5-year BSN program and had students in an outpatient clinic for CH and for leadership in many other community agencies. In the clinic, we paired nursing students with medical and pharm students and tasked them to interview patients coming to an Internal Medicine clinic. We also organized all first-year health science students into seminars taught by two faculty from different disciplines. The students were paired and had to go into the community and interview a person or family about their health. The students who had such clinical experiences were more positive about interdisciplinary education and had better knowledge about the other health disciplines. This was from 1969-1973. Today, we are still struggling with interdisciplinary education. In 1975, a PH colleague and I wrote a Division of Nursing grant for 3 million dollars to start a Post RN (admitted RNs, BSNs and MSNs) Adult Nurse Practitioner program, the first in California. This was the early days of the NP movement, which was started in the �late 1960s in Colorado by Loretta Ford (nurse) and Henry Silver (MD). The nurse graduates were called Pediatric Associates. We were funded for 3 years to develop this new program. Due to existing prejudice about NPs thinking they were just Junior Doctors, the UCSF School of Nursing refused to accept the grant. Thus, we were housed in the School of Medicine for 3 years. The grant was successful. In 1975, there were no NP graduates to act as preceptors so we had to use MDs. We found many excited and willing to work with the students. We then wrote another Division of Nursing grant for a MS Adult NP program. It was funded, and by then the School of Nursing decided to accept the grant and house us. Since neither I or my colleague were NPs, we decided to go through our own program and I was certified as an NP in 1978. While a program director, I continued to teach and practice as an NP in the Primary Care Internal Medicine Clinic. I was on the faculty from 1969 until 1982 becoming a Clinical Associate Professor in 1981. I was accepted into the USCF/Berkley doctoral program in Medical Anthropology. It was a joint degree in between Berkeley and San Francisco in Medical Anthropology. I was the only health professional in the program and had no background in anthropology. In a year, I caught up with my much younger classmates. I was 39 when I started the program. I did my NINR-funded dissertation fieldwork in Austin, TX interviewing 40 women about how they manage their weight. I had great cooperation from the women whom I interviewed. I completed the PhD in 5 years and was then hired by the School of Nursing at the University of Texas at Austin as an Assistant Professor. I was able to get NINR funding again to replicate my dissertation with African American and Mexican American women. This funding and numerous peer reviewed publications enabled me to become a tenured Associate Professor in 4 years and Professor in the following 3 years. Once I received tenure, I applied for and received funding to start the first Family Nurse Practitioner (NP) program in Central Texas. The advent of the role of NP changed MS education in nursing forever and NP programs became the number one major in most MS programs. NPs offered the public a skilled practitioner who combined nursing and medical knowledge and skills to care for patients across the lifespan. The public began to learn the value of nurses and their abilities. I must say that becoming a NP changed the course of my career. Developing NP programs led to involvement in national NP organizations. I served as President of the National Organization of Nurse Practitioner Educators (NONPF). My background as a NP and my publications about the role, led to my 6-year appointment (4 years as Vice Chair) on the US Preventive Services Task Force. The Task Force developed population-based recommendations for preventive services across the lifespan. Medicare used the recommendations to develop polices for funding preventive services. To finish talking about my career, in 2007, I was appointed Dean of the University of Texas Health Science School of Nursing. I served as Dean for 5 years and was then recruited to be the Dean of the University of Maryland School of Nursing in 2002. I retired in 2013. During these yeas as Dean at two Schools, I served on the Boards of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing and American Academy. I retired with over 150 peer reviewed publications. �EG [0:25:25]: Wow though, and I noticed that you, you spent a fair amount of time working in the jobs that you had, but you went back to school a number of times as well. Wow! If I may say so, you are incredibly accomplished. Gotcha. Well, let’s see...I also, you said you, ah, graduated in the class of 1960? JA [0:25:32]: Actually, it was class of ’64. I started in 60. EG [0:25:35]: Gotcha, ‘64. So, I don’t know how much this will relate to you but, um, do you have any feelings about the closing of the program in 1985? JA [0:025:40]: It certainly made me feel sad that the College had to discontinue such a long standing and excellent major. However, at the time that this decision was made, there was, believe it or not, a glut of nurses and also a decreasing interest in nursing as a career. I know that the College made such a decision reluctantly but were impacted by a declining enrollment and rising costs to maintain the program in New York City. I think the expansion of opportunities for women to almost any field also had an impact. I don’t know if having to leave a more traditional college campus experience to live in New York City for 2 years was a factor in recruitment of students. I do feel sad that many nursing graduates do not give back to Skidmore because of their anger at the closing of the program. EG [0:27:09]: Wonderful. Well, yeah, you actually got my last question in there which was, kind of, how your education at Skidmore has impacted your life, but it sounds like it changed your life. JA [0:27:19]: Many big decisions like where to go to college, where to live or what job to take often reflect “turning points” in one’s life. Such periods often are inherently risky because often one choice is to stay the same and the other is to take a risk. For me being able to choose Skidmore was a big turning point. Instead of living at home and attending a commuter school near my home, I spent 4 years living in two incredible places, meeting people from all over the country and making friends who grew up in very different circumstances than I did. That first big move away from home, enabled me to consider and decide to have my first post-graduation job in Boston and then to decide that I needed to learn more about the country, thus the move to San Francisco. My education at Skidmore well prepared me for my post-graduation positions in Boston and SF. I think Skidmore provided the background that enabled me to be a risk taker. As I look over my career, there were many other “turning points,” for example, I was offered to be the VC of a department in the SON at UCSF versus developing a NP program. The later choice changed my whole career. EG [0:28:54]: Gotcha, wow, wonderful! Ok, and then, is there any other, any other memories or anything else that you’d want to make sure that it’s saved for posterity? JA [0:31:03]: I loved New York City and had a great time living there for 2 years. One bonus to �being there was that grateful patients left nearly every day Broadway show or Carnegie Hall music tickets at the faculty office. So, my roommates and I were able to see some wonderful shows. In addition, New York City offered amazing and cheap restaurants featuring food from around the world. I certainly enlarged my Scottish meal palate. Of course, the museums were free, and offered a do-it-yourself course in art history. EG [0:32:07]: Yeah, I never would have thought of that! That’s so cool! JA [0:32:10]: I also sent you some material from my program in 1960-64. The program brochure featured me and Rory Pond, ’65 (she also was interviewed). It is a blast from the past as we are in white skirted uniforms and nursing caps. I would have been a junior (1962-63) and Rory was a sophomore. EG [0:32:20]: Oh, that was you? JA [0:32:21]: Yeah, it was me. Did you see that? I'm the taller one. That's me. EG [0:32:24]: Oh, yeah, I’ve seen that! I’ve been working on the exhibit so I’ve been putting [unintelligible] Wonderful! Oh wow, wonderful! I think this has been amazing, it’s really good! JA [0:34:05]: I have had a great, great career and it all began at Skidmore. Thank you for listening to my story. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Janet Allan '64 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Emma Griffin '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:27 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Janet Allan, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Janet Allan '64 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 15, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/4ad40f672f4e7d200028f1655bf065ef.jpg 4bb658f2065b7310bc5e937a44efb8bc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Handwritten note from Mary Briggs Segall on back of photo: "Mary Segall in Pueblo, Colorado, December 2022 at Memorial Hall." https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/81d976eabdc48190edba3c41c8be016e.jpg c6b603d5f46067ac5087a17eb5684c47 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Handwritten note from Mary Briggs Segall on back of photo: "Mary + husband Burton Segall sailing on a dhow up the coast of Tanzania from Bagamoya to Tanga as Peace Corps volunteers. 1963" https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/d5993416cbb7e1acd12b2d318346c0d2.mp4 b71af601f96e33e1c1072f3619f2abb1 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/991720187bca8e41c33bc3ab4a91a1ab.pdf 039ca63b0c09934ea6708a403da2f8e9 PDF Text Text Interview with Mary Briggs Segall '62 by Gianluca Perrotti '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, May 3, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been reordered, removed and grammar corrected by the interviewee for ease of reading. GIANLUCA PERROTTI: Good morning. This is the morning of Friday, May 3rd. It's around 12:40. This is Gianluca Perrotti here and I am interviewing Mary Briggs Segall, who is a member of the Skidmore's nursing class of 1962. We are about to get underway with this interview. So Mary, just to begin, where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? MARY BRIGGS SEGALL: Yes, I lived for four years in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. My parents, as I would frequently say, I was born and then we moved; we were always moving, while living in Ft. Lauderdale, attended two different high schools: one was a private school which I attended only in ninth grade. I did not fit in – most of the kids were from wealthy families – they had their own cars and went to parties with smoking and drinking. So, I transferred to the public high school and once again, I did not fit in. Most of the kids had been together since kindergarten and I was a newcomer. Also, my sights were set on going to college. I graduated number 3 in a class of over 800 graduating seniors and won the backstroke swimming championship for the state of Florida. Ever since I was about 6 years old, my father had told me that I would be a nurse and I always did what Dad wanted. So, I was going to be a nurse, but I wanted to enter a nursing program in a collegiate setting. I didn't know the difference between a hospital nursing programs and a program offered through a college. During my senior year I was thinking of going to the University of Florida in Gainesville. They had a nursing program there. And then a family member came through Ft. Lauderdale and stopped over at our home for dinner. When they heard I wanted to study nursing, and go to college, they said, ‘oh, you should go to Skidmore College – that school has a wonderful nursing program.’ Without any further investigation or study, I applied, and was accepted. It was providential to say the least that I ended up at Skidmore because I'm from Florida; I didn’t know really anything about schools in the northeast. I knew about Vassar and Smith, but they didn't offer a nursing program there, I think they had social work. I was very fortunate to have been accepted at Skidmore, and what a wonderful program it was. I just can't say enough about it. I think there were, I don't know 20 or 30 women in the nursing program. I can't recall whether there were 20 or 30 students, but it was not a huge class. It was very selective. It was a wonderful education. So that's how I got there. GP [02:41]: And did your family have any background in the field of medicine or nursing? MSB [02:47]: No – none at all. I asked my father later in life, ‘why did you want me to become a nurse?’ And he said, ‘oh...’ And he always took care of my brothers and I, my brother and sister and I, when we got sick, he was the one who took us to the doctor, took us to the hospital. Dad applied the ear medicine if we had an ear ache. He was the one who really took care of my brother, sister, and myself, and he said, ‘I thought that if you were a nurse, it would make it easier for you to take care of your family if you had studied to �be a nurse and had the skills to help you be a mother and wife, to be able to take care of your family.’ In summary, no one in our family had any background or preparation in medicine or nursing. Our family members were in business. GP [03:47]: Another background question - what was your educational background before you joined this program? and did you have any working experience before enrolling at Skidmore? MSB [03:59]: I was a top student. I was third in my senior class of 800. I was a top student; I took four years of Latin and took the advanced college prep program. I did do some volunteer work at the local hospital. I was not particularly keen on that when I was in the hospital. I didn't care for hospitals, really too many sick people. But I, I went to a wonderful camp. It was a ranch camp, while I was in high school. My parents had their roots in the Midwest. Because we were moving around so much while I was in elementary, middle, and high school, I didn't have many friends; my parents were concerned about my lack of friends and that I was always reading. So, they sent me to this wonderful ranch in northern Arizona where we rode horses and I laughed a lot. MSB [04:57]: I learned about wrangling cattle, ranching and camping out in the wonderful mountains. In addition, we lived for several weeks with the Navajo and the Hopi Indians on their respective reservations as part of the summer program. I loved this ranch and I went back every year from the time after my freshman year and each summer during college and I even took my husband to the ranch after we were married. As I said, I loved it and I loved the Indian cross-cultural experience. If I had known what an anthropologist was, I would probably have studied anthropology. My dream was to, as a nurse, to ride my horse and make home visits to the hogans where the Navajos were living. That was my dream. When we were in our first class of nursing at the beginning of my sophomore year, we were asked to stand up and tell everyone why we wanted to be a nurse. Most people had had a rather crucial moment, like when they were, 10 and they were having their tonsils out and the nurse who took care of them was like an angel of mercy, so they decided that they wanted to be a nurse because of that experience. Well, I said that I wanted to be a nurse because I wanted to ride my horse to visit Navajos in their hogans. I was the only one who had that dream, but that was my dream to do that. MSB [06:49]: In the future, I did not ride my horse on the reservation, but I did visit Indians in my truck. GP [07:10]: And, um, just a quick follow-up to what you have just described, what, what was the name of the ranch you said again? MSB [07:17]: The name of the ranch was Timberline Ranch located in Northern Arizona in the White Mountains. Those summers at the ranch were a pivotal experience for me. I progressed from my first year as a camper to being a counselor, wrangling the horses in the morning, being a bookkeeper for the other girls’ accounts, and then buying turquoise jewelry and kachina dolls for the owners of the ranch who had a shop selling Kachina dolls and Navajo jewelry in the wintertime in Santa Fe. So, I ended up becoming a buyer �for them. I learned how to give greetings in the local language and how to visit the hogans, negotiate the sale of Kachina dolls and the Navajo jewelry from the Indians. I learned how to be respectful of the customs of others: It was definitely an introduction into understanding other people’s culture. GP [08:15]: That story is really an example of why we're doing this project - to capture stories like these. Speaking on a more personal note, I also, I've spent not as far north in Arizona, but I've spent time in Flagstaff and Sedona when I was younger. Such a beautiful state. MSB [08:39]: Sedona. Magical. GP [08:42]: It really is. It really is. MSB [08:44]: Yeah. Magic. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I think it's in my genes in a former life that I was in, because I related well when I lived and worked for 5 years in Jordan... so it was the same sort of red stone. The colors, the sandstone... GP [09:08]: After talking about your work with the Navajo and your life on the ranch, to bring it back, I guess to the Skidmore context, what drew you to this program? I mean, what was it specifically? Was there anything that specifically stood out to you? MSB [09:24]: If you indicated that your major was nursing then you're in that particular course of study; if I started something I was going to finish it. I knew I was going to be a nurse and had selected the nursing major when I entered that first year. I took all the prerequisites - the sciences and the social studies. The course work for the freshman year was pretty heavy. During that first year we were with students in the nursing major for most of the courses, there wasn't a lot of mixing with other students. In the dorm there were students from other majors, but mainly I was in my cohort with the nursing majors and that was fine. Over time, we got to become very close. MSB [10:20]: Some of the courses were harder than others – some were courses that I didn't have a lot of experience or prior knowledge of. I remember sociology, sociology was difficult for me... but, I did well with my courses and then for my sophomore and junior years went to New York City for clinical study and practice in the hospitals and on the streets of New York for public health. My goodness, I must say that I was not your ideal nurse at the time. I didn't really understand what it meant to study nursing as a vocation. I didn't have an idea of what nursing was about although I had this dream that I take care and visit the Navajos on my horse, but I didn't have an idea about the practicalities of being a nurse. So, there I was in the hospital, I was nineteen. Being in New York was so much fun. I had two roommates, Judith Fox and Laura Stanley and we were terrible. MSB [11:26]: We lived in the residence hall for students studying to be physicians at New York University. Skidmore had rented two floors in this building for their nursing students. Judith, Laura, and I shared a two-bedroom suite with our own bathroom. We would dye our hair blonde with Lady Clairol so we had the same color of hair. We each had our mothers' racoon fur coats, instead of walking the 10 blocks between the residence hall �and University Hospital we would frequently take a taxi, as we were usually late, so we would sashay up to the doors of the University Hospital in the taxi, with our raccoon coats and our blonde hair and we waltzed into the hospital to take care of patients. We were not your ideal students of nursing. And I think I went to every play that was playing on Broadway, standing up of course. I just had a wonderful time and I also remembered that I um, I felt really sad for the patients who were so sick. And so, I didn't find my calling until I reached the last course of study in the summer of my junior year – public health. I fell in love with public health; I loved walking the streets of New York to visit the families on the West Side who came mostly from Eastern Europe. I enjoyed being able to go into their homes (small apartments) spend time, have a cup of tea and get to know them. I felt that for the people in the hospital; we took everything away from them; we took away their personhood. There they were in that bed, in the hospital, and I didn't know them as a person. I loved being a visiting nurse. I did really well in that final course in public health. I got and received an A + on my final paper. MSB [13:39]: I did fine with the course work during my sophomore and junior years and as I said, I loved being in New York City, had a grand time with my two roommates, had a boyfriend who ran a mosaic shop and I invited my classmates to his shop to make a mosaic table – life was full of adventure and discovery. For my senior year, we returned to campus in Saratoga Springs, and that too was a wonderful experience. For one reason, we were mature, probably more so than many of the students who had remained on campus. As nurses, we had encountered people who were sick, dealing with illness, dying and trying to learn how to help them... in short, we had a lot of life experience. During my senior year, I discovered my interest in political science. I very much enjoyed Dr. Baker, the professor who was chair of the American Studies program. It was very exciting to have the exposure to this range of studies – such a wealth of information to be exposed to during my senior year. As you recall, in the early 60s, Skidmore was a woman's college; thus, our weekends consisted primarily of going away to a men's college or else having the guys visit us. At that time, there were 109 bars in Saratoga Springs... I found it pretty boring to go on a date in Saratoga Springs because one just went to a bar and drank and I would watch the clock to see when we could return to our dorm before curfew, which as I recall was at 1:00 am. MSB [14:41]: To avoid this, I got a job as a ski bum, at Killington. Rocky Stone, who lived in Albany, would drive and pick a group of us up in his hearse; by the time he arrived, he was usually inebriated. I would drive the hearse north to Killington (as I was sober). Rocky had a cabin (no heat) only a wood burning stove and we would all stay in this very cold cabin. I did not have much money, as my father had refinanced their home to pay the cost of my attending Skidmore, so there was not much money left over for extras. I got a job at the Killington ski-lift taking the blankets off the chairlift at the top of the mountain. That was cold too. I did this for half a day and would ski the other half of the day. That was how I spent most of my weekends, which was interesting, fun, and different. During the week I studied. During spring semester of our senior year, we had one course on Nursing Leadership and getting ready for our next steps. The course was taught by the director of the Nursing Program, Ms. Agnes Gelinas. She was a wonderful and gifted leader and teacher. One of her gifts was to believe in each of us and to find out and �support our dreams. Um, you know, we had a, um, during my junior year, John F. Kennedy as part of his campaign promised that if elected, he would form an organization called the Peace Corps. MSB [15:47]: During my final clinical conference of my junior year, I asked for guidance from my nursing instructors. I said, ‘I’d like to work abroad, internationally when I graduate.’ I asked, ‘how would I do that?’ They were rather dismissive of my question and said, ‘there are really no opportunities.’ I persisted by asking, ‘what about working with the World Health Organization?’ They responded by saying, ‘you have to know something; you're only a new grad and you don’t know very much. You need experience. Maybe in 20 years, you would be able to get a job with the World Health Organization, if you had some international experience and were proficient in another language besides English. Maybe you could be a missionary.’ I was an Episcopalian and nobody had ever come to our church to talk about their mission work at an Episcopal mission overseas. I had no idea how to go about being a missionary at all and it was not very appealing to me. Then, two instructors said, ‘your shoes are not very well polished and you always have a problem with the way your hat sits on your head.’ That was the end of the conference and my dream of working internationally as I knelt down on my knees and polished my shoes. However, during my senior year, just after Thanksgiving, I was sitting in the coffee shop on campus where the post office was... I was reading the local newspaper and I read about that somebody was coming to campus to talk about the Peace Corps because John Kennedy had kept his campaign promise to the young people at Michigan State University, that he would fund the formation of the Peace Corps. His request had resonated with me: “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you could do for your country.” MSB [17:54]: Thus, when I read about someone visiting the campus to talk about the Peace Corps, I attended the presentation and learned about the application process. I persuaded my roommate, Laura Stanley, to drive to Albany to take the entrance exam at the post office. (I recall how cold it was in that room), in December or January. Then, during the spring semester we had a final course in nursing with Ms. Gelinas on nursing leadership. It was a seminar-capstone kind of a course, but we didn't call it a capstone course in those days. We were asked to write a final paper and I shared with Ms. Gelinas of my dream and how I had applied to join the Peace Corps. As I have mentioned earlier, Ms. Gelinas believed in each one of us, and could see the potential that we had even though others would wring their hands with the things that we were doing (or not doing). Thus when Ms. Gelinas heard about my desire to join the Peace Corps, she said, ‘Oh Mary, that's wonderful. I think you should go to Washington and have an interview with the recruiters and get a sense for what it would be like. Remember you need to be prepared. You need to prepare your questions and write them down on 3x5 cards.’ MSB [19:24]: Ms. Gelinas also directed me that I should write to people who were working overseas, and find out if any nurses might already be in the Peace Corps since a year had passed since the founding of the Peace Corps. I carefully followed the directives of Ms. Gelinas. I took the train from Saratoga Spring to Washington DC where I had set up an interview with Sally Bowles, Chester Bowles' daughter. Chester Bowles was ver �prominent in the Congress, and would later become Ambassador to India. Sally, upon hearing that I was completing a nursing program was delighted that I was interested in joining the Peace Corps. She said, ‘I've just returned from Tanganyika (in 1964 renamed Tanzania. We are forming, at the request of the Tanganyikan government, a program to send nurses who have joined the Peace Corps to Tanzania. And you'd be perfect. You're a nurse, you're graduating, you'd be perfect to go over there. And, by the way, you'll probably get married because there are 30 engineers in Tanganyika that are a part of the first group of volunteers.’ MSB [20:28]: I restrained myself from saying, ‘Yuck.’ Getting married was not on my agenda. The Peace Corps was in its early stages of organization and had lost my application, so I submitted another application and got everything together. Lo and behold in May, 1962, I received a letter inviting me to join the Peace Corps with an assignment to Tanganyika. I was the first graduate of Skidmore to enter the Peace Corps. I graduated with a great celebration with my family - mother and father taking the train from Ft. Lauderdale to campus for the graduation. I then took the board exams for the nursing license in late June. I then started my training as a Peace Corps Volunteer at the Maxwell School at Syracuse University, with 30 other women. MSB [21:45]: It was a wonderful orientation to prepare us for working in East Africa. I soon learned that about one third of the nurses in our group were new grads or only out of school a year, and another third had worked a couple of years and a few are were very skilled. We were assigned to hospitals or places based on our skills. When Miss Gelinas heard that I had been accepted, she wrote a letter to Sargent Shriver, the first Peace Corps director, saying that I was very excited about joining the Peace Corps and that the nursing program at Skidmore had prepared me with the knowledge, skills and competencies, but that I was a new grad and I would need supervision. Sargent Shriver responded with a letter saying that he appreciated this information and would ensure that I had good supervision. I still have these letters in my scrapbook. GP [23:07]: Can you tell me a little bit about Agnes Gelinas? MSB [23:13]: Yes. Ms. Gelinas was dedicated to nursing. She had been the director of the program since its inception in early 1940s. While we were at Skidmore, Ms. Gelinas had planned to retire because she was of the age of retirement; however, President Val Wilson had some health issues and asked Ms. Gelinas not to retire saying he had a pretty full schedule and would prefer not having to find a director of the nursing program as well. Fortunately for me, Ms. Gelinas agreed to postpone her retirement. Our contact with Ms. Gelinas was primarily in our senior year on campus. We didn't see much of her sophomore or junior year as we were with our instructors on the wards or giving lectures in the classroom. I don't recall Ms. Gelinas giving us a lecture in our sophomore or junior years. My experience with her was in the senior year. She was a very gentle woman; and most strikingly she believed in us. As I remember her, she was elderly. I have no idea how old she was when I was a senior, but everyone looked old if they were over fifty. I recall one afternoon when I had an individual appointment with her to discuss my paper, I remember it was hot; there was no air conditioning; I remember bringing her iced tea for �my afternoon conference with her to talk about the Peace Corps. She was very grateful for that. Ms. Gelinas took the train from New York City about a four or five hour ride from New York City to Saratoga Springs. GP [25:23]: Do you think there were any values or skills that you acquired while in the nursing program or from an influential figure like Ms. Gelinas, that helped you or that you utilized in your career? MSB [25:41]: I believe that Skidmore prided itself on excellence, and encouraged faculty and students alike to strive for excellence and this, of course, included our nursing program. In those days (late 50s and early 60s) studying nursing by attending a collegiate program was not the norm. Most students selected a program based in a hospital; it was a very different experience attending college or being in a hospital-based program to study nursing. The nursing faculty under the direction of Ms. Gelinas really believed in what they were doing and provided us with an academic foundation that fostered a spirit of inquiry and reflection about what we were doing. So, I think the Skidmore nursing program gave us a sense of excellence, purpose, direction, and confidence; as I have mentioned before Ms. Gelinas believed in us. It made us feel pretty special, I think. Also, there was an emphasis on team and collaboration with one’s fellow students. I know Laura, Judith and I were pretty close as friends when we roomed together and we stayed together during our various locations of our junior year. When it was time for our team leading experience, the faculty separated us and I did not team lead with either of my two roommates. Faculty believed in diversity, as much as we understood about the many faces of diversity in those days. But I think we're seeing the value of excellence and a certain integrity, about being a member and part of the Skidmore community. MSB [27:30]: The value of academics was important and having a liberal arts foundation. I feel that Skidmore prepared us to be citizens of the world. My favorite liberal arts courses were English and political science. I took a class in drama that was great fun. I was so grateful that I went to Skidmore. It was a small program with an excellent education; I believe I was a bit different from the rest of my nursing classmates – most of them were from the Northeast and I had spent the first 10 years of my life in the Midwest and then middle and high school in the South. When I returned for my 40th class reunion as a speaker about my experiences working abroad, I realized that the differences between myself and most of my other classmates that I was not aware of at the time. I was a fish out of water. I didn't realize how different it was at the time for me culturally. GP [28:41]: I know that you mentioned this earlier about the value of having a nursing program incorporated and a part of a liberal arts education, from what I've learned, it seems that having the nursing program on both the main campus in Saratoga Springs and in New York City must have been a unique experience for you all. Could you tell me a little bit about your experiences or compare and contrast your experiences in New York City to those you had on campus in Saratoga Springs? MSB [29:28]: During our first year we lived on campus in Saratoga Springs in very old houses, �as this was well before the construction of the new campus. I think the houses were a firetrap. I lived in Nelson House, which was at the end of Union Avenue. There was a new dorm, Moore Hall. GP [30:02]: Was it the pink palace? MSB [30:07]: Yes, that was it. GP [30:17]: Because it no longer stands. MSB [30:17]: I was stunned when I visited the new campus – it was amazing. So, our freshman year was very academic, focused on the biological and social sciences. It was a protected and circumscribed experience too. We would walk down Union Avenue with one’s friends to the classroom; we ate our meals in the Pink Palace dorm, it was a selfcontained experience with our fellow students, unless one walked down the hill to Saratoga Springs which did not happen very often except on weekends. I'd never even gone out to the race track or the Spa, those were summer activities and I was not there during the summer and we did not have cars. We just stayed on campus. And then off to New York City for two years. Wow. What a big city and what an experience. We first lived at 30th and 1st Ave on the East Side, overlooking the East River. University Hospital was located at 20th and 1st Avenue. During our junior year we took clinical rotations at three different hospitals: obstetrics at Cornell Hospital and then psychiatry at Columbia at 160th. That was weird and scary. We lived in the same building as the psychiatric patients and at night could hear their screams. Then back to University Hospital for Team Nursing and during the summer public health and walking the streets of the East Side (Hells Kitchen) of New York City. We experienced many parts of the city. MSB [32:00]: It was so interesting. Then senior year, back on the main campus. Since I didn't want to just stay on campus and go to the bars on the weekend, I was a ski-bum at Killington Mountain, which broke life up. My experience was different from most of the other students who were not in the nursing program. They were more embedded in their life on campus and had a pattern and friends on the weekends than we did who had been away for two years. For me being both in Saratoga Springs and in New York City was an enriching experience. Lot of fun, yes lot of fun. I liked it. GP [32:53]: The final portion of the interview questions are focused around the closing of the nursing program. I was wondering how you felt when you heard about the decision to sell the property in New York City and close the program. I know you obviously weren't in the final class of 1985. How did you hear about the closing of the program? MSB [33:15]: Before I respond to that question, I would like to share one anecdote about when I �was in the Peace Corps. GP [33:22]: Of course. MSB [33:23]: I would like to describe how the Peace Corps changed my life and gave my career its directions. First, I was the first Skidmore graduate to enter the Peace Corps, which in retrospect, is interesting. I wonder how many Skidmore graduates over time have joined the Peace Corps. As I have said, during my nursing classes I was not really keen on hospitals – too many sick people. When I ended up being assigned by the Peace Corps to the largest hospital in Tanzania, Muhimbili Hospital, located in Dar es Salaam I was assigned to the pediatric ward, which cares for infants and small children. It seemed to me that most of the kids that I took care of (the infants and children), that by the time they were seen by the witch doctor in their village, and then the health center, to the district hospital to this tertiary care facility where I was, they were really sick and whatever had been tried as treatment had not worked. Most of the kids died and they died of preventable diseases, and as I saw it, they should not have died. They hadn't been immunized for diphtheria, measles, or tetanus. There were accidents where some had burned in a fire. One morning, in exasperation, I said to the medical assistant, ‘where is your public health system?’ He said, ‘Madam, we don't have one.’ That remark and my experience in that pediatric ward changed the trajectory of my life in terms of nursing. I went on to earn a master’s and doctoral degree and I've spent 50 years in public health and nursing. I taught for 25 years in 3 university nursing programs, and then I spent 30 years working in international health on contracts, funded by the Department of State's Agency for International Development (USAID). I have had a very rich experience working around the world in global health and it was all because of education and preparation I had at Skidmore. MSB [35:37]: So back to your question of how I found out about the closing of the nursing program. When I finished the Peace Corps, my husband (I did in fact marry one of those engineers) and I were given the opportunity to study for master’s degrees through the Ford Foundation with a focus of getting technical expertise in our respective fields with a minor in International Relations. My former husband studied sanitary engineering and I studied public health nursing and epidemiology in nursing. The plan was once we had advanced degrees in our respective fields, we were supposed to obtain jobs working overseas in international development, but we didn't receive any guidance on how to work overseas in those days. Thus, following graduation from the University of North Carolina, I accepted a teaching position at New York University where I taught for six years after having had the two years in the same area with Skidmore. During those six years I earned a doctorate degree under the guidance of Dr. Martha Rogers and had two children, William and Erik. So those were pivotal years. I kept in touch with Skidmore through the newsletters, so I read about the closing of the program either through a newsletter or a nursing classmate. I didn't have time to participate in class reunions as I was working, raising my two sons as a single mom, and then working overseas. As I said, I attended my 40th reunion in 2002, but I read the newsletters, so I'd heard about it and I was really shocked and saddened to think that my program was being closed. My understanding was that Skidmore had some very expensive property in New York City �that was used for the nursing program and was sold to build a new campus in Saratoga Springs. MSB [38:22]: As I said, I was saddened by the hearing about the closing and then delighted when I read and learned that the program was going to be reignited, through a relationship with New York University (NYU). I was very happy to hear about that partnership. Thus it continues; I haven't kept up too much with how that partnership is faring, but I do know how the College of Nursing at NYU is doing. They've got a fantastic dean (Dr. Eileen Sullivan Marx) of nursing. The nursing program is now a separate college at NYU, which was always a dream of Martha Rogers. When Martha Rogers started the nursing program at NYU, we were in the school of education, so to have our own separate nurse entity is very pretty exciting. GP [39:18]: I would describe what we are doing is on a public history initiative. I am in a class that includes a lot of history majors, but we also have these non-history majors, that is, majors from other backgrounds. One of the women in the class is in the (HPAC) track. She plans on enrolling in the University of Pennsylvania nursing program after our graduation this summer. So still, we still send students to NYU's nursing program as well as sending students to other nursing programs, but although changed, it definitely survives. MSB [40:17]: Very good, I am glad to hear that nursing is still somewhat remembered and carried on by Skidmore. I would like to add that as I grew older and updated my last will and testament, I included Skidmore College as part of my legacy as I am very grateful to the school for the opportunities that were afforded to me as a result of my education and preparation in nursing. I have been fortunate and grateful. GP [40:38]: Well, I believe that formally concludes our interview. MSB [41:16]: Thank you very much for this opportunity. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mary Briggs Segall '62 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gianluca Perrotti '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:18 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Mary Briggs Segall, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mary Briggs Segall '62 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 3, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/0660ae261496941b59b81b45ba0841d9.jpeg b9166cd475824978d15bb37603af787d https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/08525e55a3343c172bb6542d07315ac7.m4a 3b7e60860a34033f85c24ef2039cbc15 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/471d9889f86bde2cb8930eb53e37b0e2.pdf c06861fc76fabfc9e002d3233fbc5e07 PDF Text Text Interview with Deborah Wick '71 by Charlotte Bracklo '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. DEBORAH WICK [00:00]: Okay. I think it's working. CHARLOTTE BRACKLO [00:02]: Great. Okay. So where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? DW [00:09]: I grew up in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Let's see. I did a little college tour, but I don't think that Skidmore was even included in it, so I'm not really sure why I went to Skidmore. And I was so young then. I don't know, my parents did not help me with my college choice decisions and my school counselor really didn't help me much either. So, I'm not really sure how I landed at Skidmore, but I did land there and um, so yeah, it was a good decision for me though in the end. CB [00:46]: Good. Um, so did your family have a background in medicine or nursing or...? DW [00:53]: Okay, so did my family have a background in medicine or nursing? Yes, both my parents were physicians. My mom, um, worked in an emergency room for just a little while and then she had children, so she didn't really practice for very much of her life. My father was a psychoanalyst and so he was a physician and, and became a psychoanalyst then and, and practiced for all of his life. And we, um, yeah... But I did not enter Skidmore with the intention of becoming a nurse. I really had intended to become a teacher. That was my goal all the time while I was growing up. I was like, I was going to be a teacher because I like children and I thought that that's what I wanted to do. And when I got to Skidmore, um, I was there for the first two years. Most of the...most of the nursing students, you know, do one year at Skidmore and then two years in New York City and then one year at Skidmore, but I decided late my freshman year to become a nurse because even though I had no experience with a hospital, I'd never been to a hospital, I don't think. I don't remember ever being in the hospital. I had no idea what I was doing. But New York City... you got to go to New York City and I did not love being in Saratoga. And Saratoga then was not like it is now for you guys. It was a real Podunkville town. It had bars and that was... and a post office, and that was about it. So, I really didn't love being out in the country like that so much. I thought I would, but I didn't like it. And so, the pull of New York City was tremendous for me. And seeing the seniors come back to Skidmore, to Saratoga, they were so sophisticated and so sure of themselves. And when I was a freshman I just, I did not feel sure of myself at all. I felt really, um, awkward and I didn't... I'd gone to a big public high school, I didn't, you know… there were a lot of women for, um, from private schools who knew how to small talk and, and be socially competent, and I just felt like, I just felt so awkward. But seeing �the seniors come back, it was so cool. I was like, ‘oh I'm going to go to, I'm going to become a nurse.’ I can remember calling my dad and being worried because he would have wanted me to be a doctor, of course, not a nurse. So I called, but they were fine. And so I went to New York City and that's how I got into the Nursing program and it turned out that it was a wonderful career for me. And, um, except that I had a lot of trouble at the beginning of getting used to blood, but after I got used to blood then I did all right. But anyway, that's what I did. That's how I got to be a nurse. CB [03:39]: Were there, just based on what you just said, can you, like incidences that you remember where, like, your fear of blood was an issue? DW [03:49]: When I, when I finished, um, Skidmore and graduated, I got married right away and um, my husband and I moved to California, to Berkeley. And, um, I worked one year as a med-surge nurse and I did get used to it pretty quickly. It just wasn't a huge deal. It made me woozy for a little while and then I just got used to it I guess because you're just so busy when you're in nursing, you got so much you've got to do that… I just didn't, didn't have time really to be too worried about it or for it to linger. But I did choose to become a psychiatric nurse. So, one year after graduating I worked in med-surge on a low-income clinic floor, which was great experience. So, all kinds of things. And then I, um, went to graduate school at University of California, San Francisco, and got a master's degree in psychiatric nursing. And I did that for a while. I did that for about eight years after I graduated. But then I didn't love that either, too much. So, I'd had, um, I had a couple... I had my son, my oldest child in 1975. And then, in 1977, I had my daughter and I had her at home. I did not go to the hospital. I did not love the hospital for birth, giving birth. It was not a great experience. And so being in Berkeley and being a young hippie at the time, I had my second child at home. And after that I decided what I really wanted was to become a nurse midwife. And that's... that was my, that was my passion for the rest of my career. It really was a passion. I loved being a nurse midwife. I absolutely loved it. So, when... let's see, so that was in ‘77… I had Sarah and then, um, I had another child, Annie, in 1980. And then finally... so I had these three kids… my husband was... we were living in Athens, Georgia at the time. My husband was at the university. He was an English professor. And um, I know this is not very organized the way I'm doing, telling you this, is it? CB [06:06]: No worries at all. It's really totally up to you. DW [06:09]: Okay. So, then I, um, well I read a lot of... I read a lot of feminist literature at that time. I was reading a lot of feminist stuff and it just happened that one summer right after I decided... after a couple of years after having Annie, after '80, I decided this is it. I really want to go back to school and become a nurse midwife. And so, um, Annie was �born at home also. So, the first one was in the hospital, then Sarah was at home, Annie was at home. Then I decided I'm going to school because I was reading all this, all this feminist stuff. So, I, you know, just said to my husband, ‘look I gotta go, we gotta go to school.’ So, he took a leave of absence and a sabbatical. He took enough time so that he came and took care of the children. And I went to graduate school at Georgetown University and got a master's degree in nurse midwifery. And so that was really the, that was really, I know that's a long time. It was like 10 years after I graduated, but that was really the beginning of my career. When I was working in psychiatric nursing I did work. Um, I worked in the hospital and I did continue in education and then I taught in a baccalaureate nursing program. I taught psychiatric nursing. But really, when I became a nurse midwife, that was the beginning of my career. And that's, you know, my real love. The thing that I really loved to do. So that was my beginning. CB [07:38]: That's, that's really great. Um, I'm just going to base off of the questions that we have and kind of jump back to high school real quick. Um, you kind of mentioned that you didn't really plan on being a nurse, but what was your educational background before joining the program? Like were you focused on sciences in general or...? DW [08:01]: No, I kind of was all over the place. I really didn't know because I, I was planning on being a teacher so it doesn't, wasn't really focused on one thing or another. And I was thinking early education like so elementary school teacher. So I didn't really... no, I just kind of had a general... and you know... Hold on a second, I gotta pick up my phone. Um, and in those days you didn't have as much choice. Like you guys have much of a choice, then you didn't, you just took what you took. You took English, you took a science, you took history, you took, you know, one of everything and it was pretty much prescribed for you. You didn't really get to choose a lot. Maybe, you know, I got to choose my language. I took French, but there wasn't a lot of choice. CB [08:45]: Okay. And then to your Skidmore experience. Um, what was your sense of the program before you started? Did you have, did you know the nursing program existed since you weren't really planning on doing that or...? DW [09:05]: No, I had no idea they existed until I met these seniors who came back from New York City and then I was like, ‘oh wow.’ And I think, um, I don't think any of my roommates did it, but I may have met somebody who was going in the nursing program and they were... I wasn't the only, you know, most people did the 1-2-1 program or one in New York, uhh one in Skidmore and then two in New York City and one on campus. But there were a few, I think there were three other women along with me who had decided later who went, who did the two and two, two years and two years like I did. But, um, so �being at Skidmore was, you know, during those years, I don't, have you interviewed anybody else who's around this age of mine? CB [09:56]: Uh, no. You're my first interviewee. DW [09:58]: Okay. Um, well during those years at Skidmore, we went from being a freshman and having all of these rules where you couldn't do... There were no boys in the dorm. There were curfews every night. You had to wear a skirt to dinner every night. And we used to wear raincoats with our nightgowns underneath them because nobody would know you didn't have a skirt on. But, um, just lots and lots of rules, to our senior year when there were no rules… Boys could come all the time, you could wear whatever you wanted to. So, it was like this huge transition in the culture of, you know, of the country during those four years that I happened to be in college, um, which was fascinating in itself. But um, being in New York City was the biggest... So, my junior and senior year was when most of the changes happened, was between junior and senior year. So, um, we were right on, well, the first year we were on 2nd Avenue and 20th Street and then they built a whole new building for us that summer. And the next year we were at 34th Street and 1st Avenue. So, our first year at, at...in New York, um, we were in a dorm, this old decrepit building really. And the dorm, everything was in the same building. So, you lived upstairs and then you had the classroom and, um, faculty offices were downstairs. So, it was all one building in New York. But, um, the first year was a really decrepit building. So that was very memorable because, um, we even collected a huge jar of cockroaches, I believe, and sent them to the president of Skidmore because this building was so decrepit. We used to cook. We had to cook our own meals because there was no meal service. So, we, and we have, I think we had a couple of hot plates and it was just like, it was kind of crazy for the tuition we were paying. And I think our parents all were up in arms, so they all wrote to the president too. And then the next year they had built this huge... It was an older building, but they had totally renovated it. And it was gorgeous. A gorgeous building with...We got to choose our carpet and our furniture. And, um, it was just crazy. It was just crazy. It was just a time of so much transition for me. But anyway, so that was my kind of Skidmore experience and I never did go back to Saratoga because I was graduated after my, you know, after my second New York year. CB [12:42]: And so, it sounds like you had, you enjoyed your time in New York City. DW [12:48]: We loved being in New York, just loved it. You know, the nursing classes were really small. I don't know how big our class was, but it was small. You know it wasn't like a hundred students. It was like…I don't remember how many, I wish I could remember. You'll have to look that up. But anyway, so it was just this really intimate, um, small group of women and we became very close and we, we would do stuff in New �York. Like we go to a lot of the plays on Broadway. We would go for standing room only because we couldn't afford to get tickets, but we could do the standing room only. We'd go to Broadway plays and we would... I remember my roommate and I went down and we took a pottery class down in Greenwich Village. Um, and we just had a great time. It was wonderful. Oh and we'd do, like we would do the visiting, we had, um, one of our courses was Community Health Nursing, so we would go down to the Lower East Side to these very poor sections, um, with our public nurse uniforms on and we'd go into these tenement houses and, um, deal with people there. It was just… it was a lot different than being in Saratoga for me. And it was really wonderful. I loved it. CB [14:10]: So, you just mentioned a class that you, that you took. Are there any other classes that you remember as like sticking out or any teachers, professors that you had? DW [14:23]: Yeah, I loved all of our nursing courses, I don't know why. I was not a great student my freshman and sophomore year, well I was better sophomore year, but then my nursing two years, those courses were hard. And there was a lot more work for those courses than the ones that we'd have on campus. And, um, but I really enjoyed them so much more, I guess because I was more focused on what I wanted to do by then. And I remember a psych nursing course was fascinating, we went to the VA hospital and dealt with some very mentally ill people. But I remember our professor… Well most of our professors were quite young. There was one older med-surge professor, but our psych professor would have us over to her apartment, which was kind of fun and have lunch, you know, have lunch for us and stuff like that. Yeah, we, yeah, I kind of loved all that stuff. Loved those days. We'd walk up 1st Avenue at night to the library at NYU and use their library. And I don't know, it was fun. It was a different experience. You can tell probably from the experience that you're having, it's a different kind of, different kind of thing, different opportunity. CB [15:37]: Yeah, it definitely sounds different. DW [15:41]: More of an urban kind of thing. CB [15:45]: And, um, so after Skidmore, how did you think what you learned at Skidmore or like the liberal arts program? How did it impact or serve you in your future career? DW [15:58]: Um, you know, it was really good. They, they would always tell us that because we've gone to a baccalaureate program we would, would not have had as much focus on actual nursing skills like um, like starting an IV or, you know, suctioning somebody or something, a physical kind of skill and that is true. We did not have as much of that, but we had, we had a really good basis for decision-making and um, anatomy and physiology �and why you were doing things and how to, how to make decisions about a patient. So, I really felt like it served us very well in that way. And the skills we learned very quickly, you know, because anybody can learn how to start an IV. It's just a physical procedure that you just, after you do it five times, you know how to do it. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't take a lot of judgment or thinking, it's just a... like a thing that you learned to do. And, but we had a really good education and sort of the, all the background stuff on how you make decisions and why you make decisions. So, I felt really, really good about that. Um, and that has always helped me. It's kind of like one of the things we learned was how to learn. We didn't just learn stuff, but we learned how to learn stuff and how to find out stuff and how to, how to problem solve a problem and that kind of thing. So that was really good and that helped me well. CB [17:29]: Good. So, um, you kind of already talked a little bit about your career path earlier, but when you first indicated your interest in being part of this memory project, you mentioned that you opened your own midwifery home birth practice? DW [17:47]: I did. CB [17:48]: Could tell me more about that? DW [17:50]: Yes. Yes, I could tell you more about the home birth practice. Um, so one of the things that Skidmore I think set us up to be was kind of leaders in our fields. I mean, we felt like we knew what we were doing. We felt pretty confident, confident in making our own decisions, maybe. I'm not sure what it was, but we all kind of went off and did our own thing regardless of what we were supposed to do. Do you know what I mean? We could make our own decisions. So, we um, so I... after Nurse Midwifery School, um… well first of all, at Georgetown was a very, um, it was a very good nurse midwifery program and the head of our program was a woman who had actually started a home birth service in the Washington DC area. So, she was very open to alternative methods of childbirth and natural childbirth. And so, I had gone through school with experiences at an out of hospital birth center, I had done one home birth as a nursing... as a midwifery student… and so I was very comfortable with that and I'd had three of my own children by then at home. So, I... so the first thing I did after midwifery school was, I worked in a, in a hospital, in a low-income midwifery clinic and it was great experience for me. But what I really wanted to do was to do home birth because, you know, that's where my heart was. So, I decided I was going to start my own home birth business with, with another woman who lived in Athens, this was in Athens, Georgia, and another woman who lived there. And so, um, we went to a lawyer and find out what the laws were and there weren't as many laws then as there are now about midwifery. But anyway, um, we �had a backup doctor who if one of our patients ran into trouble, she would go and see him. But very quick... Oh, can you hear me still? CB [19:56]: Yeah. DW [19:56]: Okay. I got a call waiting, but I'm just ignoring it. Um, so within, I can't, maybe within the first year of opening our own practice, we started to get quite a few clients. So, we had maybe, we started out with maybe two births a month and then we got up to about six births a month. And right in that period, the doctors in the town in Athens, there were two practices. Each had, I think at the time it started with this, they each had four doctors, three doctors… three or four doctors in each practice, I don't remember. But they were so upset that I was doing what I was doing and, um, they decided as part... I was also teaching part-time at Medical College of Georgia School of Nursing that had a satellite program in Athens. So, I was also teaching part-time because obviously I was not supporting myself with six births a month. So, I was teaching part-time and doing births part-time. They, these doctors, these two groups of doctors got together and decided that any woman who was cared for by one of them could not... none of my students in Medical College of Georgia could work with those, those women. And it was like, what? Because then I couldn't teach obstetrics obviously, right? Because I couldn't work with any of my students, my students couldn't work with any of the patients in either of the hospitals in Athens. It was really crazy. So, then I started to find out more and more stuff. Um, and finally I decided to file a lawsuit because, um, I don't, I don't remember. So, the lawsuit is really, really complicated so I don't want to get into all the details of it, but basically, I filed for first amendment rights for free speech because they, one of the things they complained about was that I would teach women that there were pros and cons of circumcision. Believe it or not, that was one of their chief complaints. The other one was that in the labor rooms, I would let my students dim the lights so they wouldn't have the bright lights on. It was like, these crazy things they were coming out with. So then in the course of the lawsuit, we found it that they definitely, they really did want to shut down my practice. That was their intent. So, the lawsuit became an antitrust lawsuit because I was practicing legally, I had a backup doctor. The only thing that, the main thing that they didn't like, it turns out that they didn't like, was that I was salaried. I was not salaried by anyone. I was... My patients paid me directly. If they needed my backup doctor, they would pay him directly. So, they were upset because I was the only nurse midwife in the whole state who is not salaried by a hospital or a physician and so therefore under the control of a hospital or a physician. They really, they just couldn't deal with that, the independence thing. So, this lawsuit went on for five years and then there was another whole tail end of it, but at the end of the five years they did settle with me. And, um, I ended up moving out of town because my husband wanted to move to Los Angeles at that point. So, um, I ended up moving out of town, which was a good thing �because they kind of sued... it was, everyone was so up in arms over this lawsuit. There were even articles in the Atlanta Journal Constitution about this lawsuit. I mean it was crazy. And I, it was very upsetting for me. It was very stressful. And so, at the end of the lawsuit when we settled, I did get to rewrite the bylaws of the hospital, which was great. And um, they couldn't, you know, obviously they couldn't squash a home birth practice after that. They had to allow the home birth practices to go on and um, but I, but I left town, which kind of was a healing thing for us because I was like the lightning rod in the whole debate. Do you have any questions about that? So complicated. It was really complicated, but I ended up suing ten doctors and two hospitals at the end. It was very traumatic. CB [24:17]: Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. DW [24:21]: That was the most traumatic thing of my whole career. CB [24:25]: Yeah, I can imagine. DW [24:26]: Obviously, obviously. CB [24:28]: And sorry, just moving on…In LA then, I think you had indicated this as well, you helped develop and run a prematurity prevention program? DW [24:43]: Yeah. That was... so I went to...We left Athens with our kids. My husband got a, um, decided that he wanted to try to do screen writing. So he was, he got a fellowship for the American Film Institute in Los Angeles, so that, and it was right at the end of the lawsuit. So, um, we went to Los Angeles, we moved to Los Angeles. And then, um, I started working for a big Kaiser hospital there. Um, Southern California is basically run by Kaiser. They kind of have a monopoly there, so there are lots and lots of Kaiser hospitals. And I was in a really large Kaiser Hospital and I was working, when I started working there, there were six nurse midwives, by the time I left there were twelve. So, we had um... the nurse midwives had half of the labor and delivery floor and then the doctors had a high-risk area, but the nurse midwives did seventy percent of all the deliveries, we did all of the low-risk deliveries. And we actually did a little bit of the high-risk ones, but not too much. So, there was a floor with this birthing center was half of it, and then the other half was the labor and delivery unit where the high-risk patients would be. And, um, that was an amazing job. We did a lot of deliveries. We would work 24-hour shifts, two midwives at a time and each of us would do between eight and fourteen deliveries every 24-hour shift. So, we were doing, we were just delivering babies like crazy there. And we had excellent statistics. So that was a wonderful, wonderful job. I got �so much experience there, but then we, um...After a couple, after about, I think I was there about three, more than three years and um, they wanted somebody, they got a bunch of money together to, um, have a prematurity prevention program. So, and they wanted somebody to do that. And I said, I'll do it. Sure, I'll be happy to do it. I've never, I'd never done anything like that in my life, but… So, I developed this program, which was really fun. I had lots of money, which was great. I got to hire my own staff. So, I hired a secretary and I think five nurses and we did, um, we took care of every woman who was at risk for having a premature delivery. So, moms with twins and triplets, people who'd had a, uh, a previous preterm delivery, there were all kinds of risks. We would do a risk assessment on every woman who came to that Kaiser. And then when they were high risk, we would, we would have them in the program and then we would do a whole educational part for them and we would follow them through their pregnancies. And then we had the highest risk women, I decided would benefit from midwifery care because, you know, the doctors go in, they do an appointment, it's like five, three to five minutes maybe, but midwives would spend like twenty minutes with the patients. So, you'd do all this education and all kinds of stuff. And these women really needed a lot of education to take care of themselves so they wouldn't have a preterm baby. So, um, so I talked to the head of our department who was this wonderful man and he... we set up this program where the nurse midwives did, I think we would do like three prenatal visits and then the doctor would do one visit and then we do three visits, he'd do one visit. So, then I had my five nurses and my secretary and then I added on midwives for this, for this clinic where we would actually take care of these very high-risk women. I had always felt like midwifery care, low-risk women would be fine because they're low-risk and babies come out really well. You know, they know how to come out. But women who are high-risk need more care and more intention. And by going to a nurse midwife they would get more care and more attention. And so, I always had that kind of philosophy that nurse midwifery care would be really good for high-risk women and as long as the midwives were in consultation with a physician. So, we would have weekly meetings where we'd go through all of our patients and talk about care plans for each one and that sort of thing. But it was a wonderful program. I loved doing that. And I did it for one year and then my husband died, suddenly and unexpectedly. And here I was out in Los Angeles, with four children and no family, and so, I did leave after the one year. It was, it was tough to leave, but I just couldn't do it by myself with all the kids and no family nearby. That, that program crashed and burned for me because I couldn't, couldn't stay and really do anything about it after that. CB [29:48]: Yeah. Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but did you continue working after that or was that...? DW [29:56]: Oh, no, yes, I did. He died of mesothelioma, which is what you get from �asbestos exposure. Even though he was a college professor, so we don't really know how he got exposed. But anyway, he died very quickly. And, um, so then I moved back east with the children to a small town in northern New York State near Albany, actually not far from Skidmore, Cambridge, New York. I don't know if you know where that is. It's not too far from you. It's about an hour, uh, east and just, let's see, where is it? Cambridge, New York. So, it's just east and north of you, I think. CB [30:32]: Yeah, I've definitely heard of it. DW [30:34]: Yeah. So, we moved there. I moved there, because there was a, a little, um, it was a small, it was a small town, had its own hospital and um, there was a doctor with one midwife and they wanted to add another midwife. So, I decided to move there and take that job. And it was a lovely, lovely place to have a baby. Um, once again the midwife did most of the deliveries, the two of us. And um, it was just this country hospital and so you knew the whole family, you know, it was a small town so you'd get to know the whole family. And um, it was, it was wonderful and it wasn't so busy. Obviously, I wasn't doing 14 deliveries every day. I just would do, uh, you know, maybe three or four deliveries a week. And it was just, it was a lovely practice with an older OB-GYN who was wonderful, who supported midwifery and I loved that. It was the perfect job for me for recovering from the death of my husband. And then I did meet another man and who, um, who was the financial aid director actually at Williams College, which is where Sarah, the ones who teaches at Skidmore, and my son both went to Williams College. And so, I met this guy who was the financial aid director and we fell in love and got married. So, he's my husband now. We're married now. Been married since '94 or '95, I guess, yeah, '95. CB [32:10]: That's nice to hear. DW [32:14]: And that was... and then, that was kind of my last, yeah, that was my last midwifery job that I had. Um, after that, after, well he's older, so we, he was ready for me to retire. So, I tried to retire, I'd try. I'd always try and retire and then I'd go back to work because I missed it so much. But anyway, one time I tried to retire and then I went back to teaching nursing and I, we moved to Cape Cod when he retired. So, um, I taught at University of Massachusetts. I commuted and taught nursing there for quite a few years and then we moved here to the south, and I have not worked again now since we moved here. I just decided, I just started volunteering though for the, oh to accompany women who've been sexually assaulted to the hospital. I'm volunteering for the sexual assault center here, but I'm not doing anymore midwifery. I'm kind of, I think I'm kind of done. CB [33:16]: Yeah. �DW [33:17]: I'm 70 now, so. CB [33:19]: Yeah, it sounds like you've done a lot. DW [33:21]: I don't really want to jump out of bed at three in the morning anymore. That was… I did that for a lot of years, that was enough. So, I don't know what else. What have I forgotten? CB [33:31]: No all good. I was just going to move on. So, your daughter teaches at Skidmore now. How... was that inspired by you having attended Skidmore? DW [33:47]: My daughter teaches at Skidmore, was that inspired by me attending Skidmore? No, Sarah went to Williams College actually. She's an artist and she was in New Jersey and it was just a job opening at Skidmore and she interviewed for it and she got it. But it was so totally ironic for me because I had these three different phases of my life of being near Skidmore and Saratoga Springs because I was a student there and then when we lived in Cambridge, New York, we used to go to Saratoga to do our Christmas shopping and stuff. And so, it was like a totally different place for me than when I'd been a student. And then... now Sarah's teaching there, so now we go and I see my grandchildren and stuff, so it's just really weird to me that I've had these contacts with Saratoga and Skidmore all these years on and off and on and off, because I really have not kept up at all with my... I mean I keep up with a couple of classmates on Facebook, but I've not... I never really went back to Skidmore. I never really went to reunions. I just didn't stay in touch with it very much. I've gotten more in touch with it now since Sarah has been there for a few years. So now I was going to go to my last reunion, but then something came up. I wasn't able to, but um, so I've never been to a reunion, but I think I will go now. Um, now that I'm back in touch with it a little bit, but it was just never, I just didn't, it just wasn't the kind of thing I did. CB [35:19]: Yeah. DW [35:20]: I kind of was moving forward, not backwards. I don't know if I answered your question. Oh, so Sarah, no, she's just teaching there because she's teaching there, but she loves that I went there. I mean she loves that. She's more excited about it than I am, I think. She just loves that I went to Skidmore and that now she's there. And she's got a 15year-old and a nine-year-old. So, um, yeah. So, we go up a lot and see them. And in the summer we always go for, um, about a month we'll go up and get a little, uh, house on a lake nearby, near Sarah and will, uh, spend a month there so we can spend time with our �grandchildren. And we go to the races and Skidmore and Saratoga and all that kind of stuff. It's fun. CB [36:06]: Yeah, it sounds great. DW [36:07]: I'm going back and she lives right in town, right on East Avenue. Right in, right in the downtown area. Yeah. CB [36:19]: Yeah, so the Nursing program at Skidmore closed. Do you remember that happening? Did you have any feelings, strong feelings about that? DW [36:30]: You know, I didn't have strong feelings about it because I was so detached from Skidmore. Once I went out to California, I was kind of, you know, the first time after getting married I was kind of gone. I didn't really, um... Oh, that's the part I left out for you. I went to, right after college I went to California. We lived there for six years. Then we moved to Athens, Georgia, and that's where all that lawsuit stuff happened. That's why I got involved in the lawsuit. Anyway, there was that transition. So, we went from California to Athens, Georgia, and then to Los Angeles. So, we had a couple of California trips. Um, anyway, um, I heard about it. I'm sure I heard about it within a year or so after it closing. Um, but I don't, do you know what year it was that it closed? I don't remember. CB [37:25]: Um, I don't remember right off the top of my head. DW [37:28]: That's okay. I think it's sad because it was such a unique program. I don't think there's another program like it anywhere in the country. And it was such a unique program and such a good program and, I don't know, what it was about it, it was just very special. Um, so I think it was sad, but I also know it was probably tremendously expensive to just for this small group of women, they had a whole faculty, a whole building. I, you know, I mean, I... in New York City, in Manhattan. So yeah, that, that must have cost a fortune to run that program and to keep it. Oh, you know, one of the ironies is that Skidmore... at the very, very beginning of the Skidmore Nursing program, I don't know how I know this, but I, but I do know it, they used to use Mary McClellan Hospital, which is in Cambridge, New York, which is the hospital that I worked in when I came back from California after my husband died. So, Mary McClellan Hospital has a whole history with Skidmore as well. And so, it's so funny that you know, your life just goes ’round and ’round. But here I was a graduate of Skidmore and I was working in the hospital that Skidmore used years and years and years before that as a clinical placement for nursing students. It's just interesting. �CB [38:49]: Yeah. DW [38:51]: Kind of an irony. CB [38:55]: So that is pretty much all I have for specific questions. Are there anything, if there's anything else you would like to share, any other memories that stand out from your Skidmore experience or, um, or after that your Skidmore experience had impacted, that you would like to share? DW [39:14]: There was one funny thing that I was going to tell you about and I forgot about it. When we were in New York City, when I was telling you all the things had changed so much over those two years… The first year we were in there, when we were this, in this old building, we had this elevator. Oh, this building was so creepy. Anyway, we lived in this old building and um, we were not allowed to have boys in our dorm, but of course we did have boys in our dorm. So, we would have to sneak them in. There was like a lady at the desk downstairs who would check to see who was coming in. So, we would have all these ruses where we would make up these elaborate plans to distract her or, you know, even burn something on the stove in the kitchen, so she'd have to go in the kitchen, and then we'd sneak all these guys in at once. It was like this. And then we'd have to sneak them out again. And one time, I remember one of my friend's husbands, now, well he became her husband, but her boyfriend had, we had him dress up in a dress and a wig to get out of the building. It was, and they realized of course that this was a man because he was huge. So, somebody was chasing him up 1st Avenue… it was the funniest... it was just, there were so many little memorable things like that. It was just really quite an experience you can imagine. CB [40:33]: Yeah. DW [40:35]: And we'd have, and we would have the, we had a little roof next door that kind of attached to our building. So, if we had boys there that we could, if we couldn't get them out in a day or so, we would let them sit down on the roof so they could get some fresh air. It was just really bizarre. I mean it was just crazy. Anyway, I'm glad things have changed so you don't have to do those kinds of things anymore. Although they were kind of funny and fun to do. CB [41:03]: Great. Well thanks a lot for sharing. DW [41:06]: Yeah, thanks Charlotte. So, tell me a little about yourself. I'm going to turn off my thing. �CB [41:10]: Yes, I'm going to turn off as well. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Deborah Wick '71 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Charlotte Bracklo '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:16 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deborah Wick '71 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore's Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/cffd8a6110a3a186a632187c725abc4b.png 0b165f041b879387c8681b66057f75d8 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/020ae8bac6d26778a07d36ee330a0c53.m4a 9c184c060c92ea24bb948b0e0107e546 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/49e6846aed03698dab97fc030df32dff.pdf c414c911b75a64f05f43baf2c1e308ed PDF Text Text Interview with Dana Carr '81 by Matthew Chipkin '20, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been reordered, removed and grammar corrected by the interviewee for ease of reading. DR. DANA CARR [0:00:00]: Ok, so it’s going. MATTHEW CHIPKIN [0:00:03]: My first question I have is, were you in school prior to deciding to attend Skidmore's Nursing Program? DC [0:00:18]: First, I would like to thank you for asking me to participate in this opportunity and I would like to provide a bit of personal background. I was born in New York City and grew up in the Bronx. I attended public school and after graduating from high school I decided I would pursue nursing as my career choice. I attended Hostos Community College—a local college in the Bronx. I graduated in June 1975 with an Associate Degree in Nursing, took my licensing exam, and landed a job as an RN at Montefiore Hospital and Medical Center. Shortly thereafter, I started taking liberal arts courses at Lehman College, which is part of the City University education system. In my mind I understood that I would need to obtain a bachelor’s degree but at the time it was just a thought. However, while at Montefiore I maintained my contact with Patricia Sullivan, the lead nurse recruiter. As we discussed my career goals and required continued education, she presented Skidmore’s program as an option for continuing my education. Of course, the rest is history! MC [0:03:05]: What was your general sense of the program before you started? Tell me about your introduction to program - when exactly you were there, what your classes were like... anything of that sort. DC [0:03:26]: This is an interesting question because I had to do a bit of leg work. I had no knowledge of Skidmore other than what Patricia Sullivan shared with me. But that said, I liked the idea of the independent nature of the program. It wasn’t just about completing nursing credits, I had to complete liberal arts credits as well. When I graduated with my associate’s degree, I only had 75 credits. To qualify for my bachelor’s, I had to complete liberal arts credits as well; this would be challenging because of Skidmore’s upstate location. Also, just because I wanted to go to Skidmore did not mean my acceptance was automatic. I had to apply for admission, just like anyone else but that said, I had lots of encouragement/support from Skidmore. It felt nice to be “wanted.” I was allowed to take many of my liberal arts courses, including sciences, nutrition, and philosophy classes at local senior colleges. I really wish I could remember the names of some of my professors who were powerful and supportive mentors, but it was so long ago. I was working at Montefiore full-time, I was raising a family and I desperately �wanted to earn my bachelor’s! It was great that the Skidmore nursing program was in New York City – East 38th Street to be exact. I started the program in 1977 and completed by bachelor’s degree in 1981. My nursing classes were interesting because even though I was already a registered nurse working in a hospital setting, there was much for me to learn. We focused on Nursing Ethics, Community and Public Health, and other areas that were not part of my associate degree curriculum. The clinical training process required me to attend hospitals. I think my schoolmates appreciated having a “real nurse” in class. They asked many questions about my work experiences. When you go back to school, you're a little bit nervous. You hope you are going to meet the criteria for acceptance. You want to be successful. Personally, I felt pressured because the nursing profession was changing, and it was important for me to obtain my bachelor's degree and function as an independent professional. In many respects, Skidmore’s program was in the vanguard. At that time, there were no City University nursing programs that encouraged independent study. I felt regarded for my experience as a licensed professional and I was encouraged to be a leader to my student nurse colleagues; I was respected. I'll tell you one of the things that I really loved was the programs leadership -- the professors I worked with were wonderful caring mentors who showed me that I could aspire to be something more – a nurse leader. Another valuable thing I learned was the difference between an associate degree nursing education and a bachelor's degree nursing education; the value of an advanced degree. I hope that answers your question. MC [0:08:50]: Yes, this honestly is what we're trying to get out of these interviews. How would you compare the campus in Saratoga to the campus in New York City to one another? DC [0:09:07]: The campus in Saratoga was rural and not very accessible. When you go “away” to school you expect to complete your education on campus or locally. Yet, being able to complete my coursework in New York City was a bonus. Perhaps there was the recognition that the trauma center in New York City was the best locations for the clinical experience. Although I was actively employed at Montefiore Hospital, I had to take time off for clinicals. I went to hospitals such as Bellevue, New York University, and Beth Israel. These were wonderful experiences because they provided opportunities to learn about the mission, vision, and values of these organizations as well as their clinical practices and culture. These clinical opportunities opened my eyes to entirely different practice models because, as previously mentioned, I grew up in the Bronx, was educated in the Bronx, and I worked in the Bronx. Having clinicals in Manhattan exposed me to so much more than I could have expected. MC [0:11:53]: Mmm. Awesome. Can you talk more about your experiences after you completed the Skidmore Nursing Program? DC [0:12:08]: I graduated from the nursing program in 1981. I must say that having that �bachelor's degree in nursing, created immediate work opportunities for me. I was able to climb a career ladder at my hospital, Montefiore. I was a head nurse on a medical surgical unit and I expanded my practice into community health. I also enrolled in graduate school. Skidmore opened another door for me and made me think more about career advancement. I advanced professionally, eventually going into home health care where I stayed for many years. I worked as a visiting nurse. I recruited nurses for the Montefiore home care agency which is part of Montefiore Hospital. I also pursued my graduate education in Gerontology attending the College of New Rochelle. I finished in 1986 with a Masters in Gerontology which allowed me to fast track into Nursing Administration. I became a nursing supervisor and eventually an assistant director and a director of nursing. If I look back and ask myself where did that all start, I have a ready answer Skidmore - and I must say, when people ask me where I got my various degrees and when I mentioned, I received my nursing degree from Skidmore College, they look at me and they're like, ‘oh, wow.’ Skidmore has a great reputation as a stellar educational institution. I'm sure Matt, you know that as you've had that experience yourself. MC [0:14:54]: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. When did you learn about UWW closing? DC [0:15:08]: I am not exactly sure when UWW closed, I believe it was sometime in 1985—you will have to check that date, but I know that its closure was/is a loss. Especially since today so many schools have programs that are modeled after independent learning. MC [0:16:24]: What is your contact with Skidmore like now? DC [0:16:52]: I am on the mailing lists and receive ongoing email updates. A few years ago, pre COVID, I was invited to come up for a meet-and-greet. It was great fun seeing young people who are still uncertain and yet very inquisitive about growth opportunities. MC [0:20:01]: This is all awesome. Is there anything else, any closing remark you’d like to make? DC [0:20:17]: I would like to say I considered it an honor to be asked to participate in this interview. I am often contacted by students from various programs, but your contacting me was especially meaningful. I credit Skidmore for getting me where I am today. As I shared previously, in 2013, I earned a doctorate in public health/health policy from the New York Medical College. That was a career affirming achievement. With every application I have ever completed for work, school or other events, Skidmore has always been on the list. For me being a registered professional nurse is a wonderful personal and professional accomplishment. I will never forget the role that UWW placed in my accomplishments. Even though the program no longer physically exists, it continues to exist in my heart and through all on my accomplishments. That said, I am pleased have had this conversation with you Matt. I hope you have found it of value. �MC [0:24:09]: Thank you, Dr. Carr. Yeah, I appreciate it so much. Not everyone answered the first email, so I am glad you were so enthusiastic about this, seriously. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dana Carr '81 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Matthew Chipkin '20 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:37 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Dana Carr, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dana Carr '81 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore's Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/8997234c864fa71e2191e1dc562931bf.jpg bc6829bbf1e05e79a767ba7c5c33257a Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Public History Class Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Spring 2019 Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/182032eb5e97f1dcbd7e173a63593474.jpg 2a5e2d65c0f01e2e157008103ea2d881 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Public History Class Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Spring 2019 Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/8258415beb5efd1acf54e8b37347b0ae.jpg e9122a719692b39490b10f122664fba8 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Public History Class Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Spring 2019 Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/226792c0167bb99c62109adeb2b701de.JPG 58a96c7cfd0cfab02ee65b33a80117b6 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Publisher Publisher of the item, or of the book or atlas in which it appears. Scope Magazine Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Compassionate Hands Presentation Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/a44cad26fc0b43a511b3c1e76f255b2e.JPG 011c962e77b5e33f4bba2b5dd4fcec98 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Publisher Publisher of the item, or of the book or atlas in which it appears. Scope Magazine Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Compassionate Hands Presentation Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/dc445f212bee424fa01bff16079a3dc5.JPG 7a0ed74759e2d0f337357378abd8ed5c Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Reunion Weekend Compassionate Hands Presentation Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Scope Magazine Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Scope Magazine Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/baeee54e168a096046145401d80ef1b8.JPG 9be870771a3b96096e4074d1bf5b71d6 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nursing Alums Reunion Weekend Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/905cf4da63c627ba19c2008bff9f4244.JPG a170f012a603a26a850b4c94c277b078 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Scope Magazine Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nursing Alums at Reunion Weekend Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Scope Magazine Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/b864265d4b37c6e75c9d1a84863cea47.JPG caca2d737445b223b07c0dadacdf7190 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Reunion Weekend 2019 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Scope Magazine Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/071db233394566ef40b34338b6fd93bb.jpg 4098179cc94af1c9d6a61aa128169868 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Compassionate Hands Exhibit Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Spring 2019 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Scope Magazine Nursing public history https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/f9882ec18297afb0ade3908794095d31.png 0b165f041b879387c8681b66057f75d8 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/3f63526cd0a67ad280d2c9aa016b0c35.m4a d865b277c60e4ada0d3895e92c815dda https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/0602d602a8247dbcb8ced4df6fd69871.pdf 4c6785b5f0c044e5dc53f74aa5b436ca PDF Text Text Interview with Laura (Lollie) Triebold '62 by Emma Griffin '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, February 13, 2019, Phone. LAURA TRIEBOLD [0:00:00]: …And so now we’re recording. EMMA GRIFFIN [0:00:03]: Ok, perfect. Um, and so, we’re gonna want to, ah, keep the smartphone right next to you so that we can hear as much as possible. LT [0:00:10]: Yes, I’ve got my home phone on speakerphone. EG [0:00:14]: Wonderful, perfect. Um, and then, ah, one more thing I have to ask you, we want as complete an interview as possible so, ahh, it’s gonna be a little bit awkward cause I can’t really, uh, interject like “mm hmm” or “yeah” that much, but just know that I’m listening and I’m, I’m very interested and very excited to hear it. LT [0:00:35]: Ok. EG [0:00:36]: And um if you’re ok with it I’d like you to kind of repeat back the questions I ask you, uh, at the beginning. LT [0:00:40]: Sure. EG [0:00:42]: Wonderful, thank you so much. Um, ok, so we’re going to start out with the first question: where were you from before you decided to apply to Skidmore’s nursing program? LT [0:00:53]: I, I have been born and raised in Whitewater, Wisconsin. I have always lived here in Whitewater. EG [0:01:01]: Uh, perfect. Um, let’s see… and then, next one is, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? LT [0:01:09]: Did my family have a background in medicine? Absolutely not. No med-no medical background whatsoever. EG [0:01:18]: Gotcha. Uh, so, where did your kind of interest in nursing come from? LT [0:01:25]: I really can't pinpoint it. Um, you know, in those days and the, in the 50s, you were either a teacher or a nurse. And of course, I think as I explained to you before, my mother wanted to make sure that I had a college education and um, so you know, we �were at odds ends for a while before we figured it out that I could become a nurse and also get a college education. EG [0:01:56]: Gotcha, wonderful. Let’s see… the next one is what was your educational background before you joined this program, your work history? LT [0:02:06]: Would you repeat that question please? EG [0:02:08]: Uh, yes. Uh, so what was your educational background or your work history before you joined the nursing program? LT [0:00:16]: I had a high school education, I was a Valedictorian of my class, and I went directly after graduation to Skidmore the following September. EG [0:02:27]: Wonderful. LT [0:02:29]: I do have two master's degrees if we want to talk about those at this time. EG [0:02:34]: Oh yeah, no, I'd love to. LT [0:02:36]: Okay. In, in the mid-seventies, I took a master's degree at the University of Wisconsin Whitewater campus in guidance and counseling. And then in 1995 I took, oh, in the 90s, I took a master's degree from Marquette University for a master’s degree in nursing at age 50. EG [0:03:00]: Wonderful. Um, the next part is about what drew you to the nursing program? LT [0:03:07]: Well, first of all, it was far away from home. I'm an only child (chuckles) and so I wanted to put some separation in there. Secondly, I had a cousin who was almost like a brother to me who was at Williams at the time. He's four years older than I, and he knew about the Skidmore girls and he knew about the nursing program. So, he was the one that put me on to the fact that I could get my nursing degree as well as a college degree. Um, that was the first thing. The second thing is that I came from a very small high school. There were a hundred totally in the four classes of the high school. And I wasn't, although I applied at Northwestern and at Cornell, I was not interested in the very large campuses. So, I went out to pick up my cousin at William, Williams, you know, I went with his mother and we stopped at the Skidmore campus and had an interview there my junior year. And of course, I fell in love with the campus. It was at that time it was all on Union Avenue, small dorms, um, not maybe the traditional campus setting. But, um, the interview went well and I, I felt um, that, that homey feeling of Skidmore. �EG [0:04:30]: Wonderful. Um, let's see. The next one is, what was your sense of the program before we get started? LT [0:04:38]: Say that again. EG [0:04:39]: Oh, uh, what was the sense of the nursing program before you started? What did you think about it? LT [0:04:47]: I, I had done some research on it and it was, it was one of the best programs. It was rated very highly in the United States. Also, it had the, the one-two-one configuration, whereas the rest of the, both John Hopkins and Cornell and I'm not sure about Northwestern, had two years on campus and then three years, like a diploma program education. And I liked the, the conciseness of it. And um, um, also it was made very clear to me that the reason it was a one-two-one program was at that final year we could be accepted into the higher-level humanity classes and um, that, that emphasis on humanities was important. EG [0:05:35]: Gotcha. Okay, let’s see. Tell me about what it was like in the program. What was the structure of the program and what classes do you remember taking? LT [0:05:47]: Okay. I think on some of the vignettes, I have already sent that out, but our freshman year was basically all anatomy, physiology, microbiology, chemistry, and so of course the nursing majors were all in class together. Um, the, the one class that I did not have, that they separated us out and gave us different sections was English 101 and then I believe both the psych and the soch. Um, we weren't totally together in those particular classes. EG [0:06:20]: Good, wonderful. Um, let’s see…oh, how would I compare the campus portion of the program up in Saratoga to the New York City portion? LT [0:06:31]: How would I compare the what? EG [0:06:34]: How would you compare your experience at Skidmore in Saratoga to Skidmore in New York City? LT [0:06:40]: Well, of course the two different environments, but as far, as far as the academics go that freshman year was tough. It was, it was, you know, we had all the, the five credit science courses I did, they had accepted 400 freshmen, um, that year. And at the end of the first semester, they identified the top 10 and I had a four point and I was one of the �top 10 and they were absolutely amazed that a nursing major would be able to carry that kind of a grade point. Um, it was, it, the academics in, in down in Sara…down in New York were entirely different. We, we knew we were learning things that we wanted to learn. And um, and in the, it was, it wasn't easy. It was rigorous academics, but it was much easier studying and putting your heart and soul into it. EG [0:07:41]: Wonderful. Now we’re going to move on to your career after Skidmore. So, what was your path after Skidmore, what did you do? LT [0:07:51]: Say that again. EG [0:07:52]: What was your path after Skidmore? So, like what happened in your career after you left Skidmore? LT [0:07:57]: Well, I came back to Wisconsin to take state boards and in July and during, during that summer, I interviewed in Chicago and I liked the large city of Manhattan. And so, I wanted to stay in a large hospital, teaching hospital. Went down to Chicago, had about five interviews, probably could have had all five jobs. I took a job at what was then called Pres. Saint Luke's. It is now called Rush Memorial hospital, a large hospital, well-known hospital in Chicago. I started on the pediatric floor and within three months they opened a new section of the pediatric floor and because of my baccalaureate degree they offered me the head nurse position there and I stayed there for about a year, came back to Wisconsin and was engaged and I spent that summer, that first summer after I had graduated, that next summer, as a camp nurse in a couple of Wisconsin girl scout camps. And then as soon as that was over, I had applied at a local hospital, which was a teaching hospital. It was run by the Sisters of Mercy and they immediately told me that they wanted me to teach, not to be a floor nurse and that again was because of the baccalaureate degree. And Agnes Gelinas had cautioned us all, they said, “You will be asked to teach and you do not have teaching skills. Do not go into teaching until you have garnered some teaching skills.” Well of course I wanted the job and I took the job and it was a three-year diploma program where I taught for a year, became pregnant, um, left, left for about, let's see, that was '63, '76, '70 for about four years. And um, then, um, I had an opportunity to have a 12 hour a week job as a county nurse, public health nurse. At that time, I had three kids underneath the age of four, I was milking cows morning and night and running 500 acres, but I kind of needed out. I needed into the nursing. So, um, in Wisconsin you are required to, if you work in, in public health, you'll required to have a certification for public health. Well, as I applied for that certification, I was five years out from school, and so normally the state would make me take other courses. Well, the head of licensing had been in Wisconsin for a number of years. She ran the department �with an iron fist and she called me up and she said “You do not need to take any educational courses. I am very familiar with Skidmore College and their public health program and so I am sending you your certificate.” And so, I did that for a couple of years and then I was offered a position to teach at in the Vo-Tech school, which I did. Um, I, let's see, I taught for a, you call them community colleges out in New York state, but this was a, a Vo-Tech school and they had opened an extension about 12, for practical nurses, about 12 miles from my home. And so, I taught that program for almost 30 years before I retired. EG [0:11:30]: Wonderful, wow, that is a full career! Um, I just want to know, were there any Skidmore nursing graduates that you knew that were also from Wisconsin, that you ran into in your career? LT [0:11:45]: No, I was, I think a token student from Wisconsin when I was accepted. There's a very high end, um, high school called New Trier in Chicago. Well there were a bunch of New Trier students at Skidmore, but none of them in nursing. EG [0:12:06]: Gotcha. Ok so, we’re going to move on to part four, which is related to the closing of the Skidmore program. How did you react to the closing of the nursing program? LT [0:12:18]: I had a class, I've stayed in contact with a number of my classmates in, at one of, about one of our, uh, I think maybe about 28 actually graduated with me. And, um, there's somewhere in the to the, two two programs so they wouldn't go back, come back to reunions. But I organized and we had I think 14 or 15 of those 28 to come back to one of the reunions. And one of those gals that I had kept in contact with worked for the state of New York. And so, we talked about the closing and she indicated that, and I had lost track with Skidmore, any of the, any of the, the actual instruction at Skidmore. She indicated that Skidmore was doing poorly on their state boards and she was very happy that it had closed because she didn't want to come from a school that now had a bad reputation in the state of New York. So, then those were my feelings. EG [0:13:17]: Wow. Let’s see…yep, so you agreed with her as well about the… LT [0:13:23]: Sure, sure. Yeah. EG [0:13:24]: …That you’d rather have a closed school than a program that’s… LT [0:13:28]: Sure, and I understood, you know, things were changing at that time. Women were, you know, as I said before, you know, when I graduated from high school, you either were a nurse, or a teacher, or a secretary and things were changing rapidly and �Agnes Gelinas was, was the, the solid point of the school. And she was a mentor to me and one that I still feel was very influential in my life. And of course, she retired. And so I, so I had no, no contact with, with who the faculty was, or who had taken over from that. EG [0:14:06]: Gotcha. Wonderful! And now, I'd just to, I was reading through these vignettes and they’re wonderful, especially the “Reminisces,” and I’d love to hear you kind of tell one of the stories. That'd be wonderful. LT [0:14:23]: Pardon me? EG [0:14:24]: Ah, the “Personal Reminisces” you wrote in one of your vignettes? Let's see, for example, the one about the pediatric unit… LT [0:14:33]: Ok! EG [0:14:34]: …love to hear you tell that. LT [0:14:36]: (chuckles) You mean the, that was in the psych unit, right? EG [0:14:41]: Yes. Yea. LT [0:14:43]: Okay. Well our psych experience was, yeah. First of all, I was there during the bitter winter of New York and there was no opportunity. I mean, we didn't, we didn't leave the psych building much. We ate there, we slept there, we studied there, we had classes there. And of course, we did our clinical work there. So, there was, a lot of us struggled with, with that. But in the pediatric unit there was about 10 kids and um, both boys and girls and, um, three of the boys were named Jeffrey. And one of the Jeffreys, the only way he communicated was to bark. And the psychiatrist said he was trying to express the four-letter word. Now back in the 60s, nobody expressed those words, let alone shriek them out in a, in a hoarse bark. So, we took him up to the Cloisters for just an outing and he decided that maybe in the Cloisters, where it echoed so beautifully, he could verbalize that word in its full meaning. And he did. We weren't very happy as students with all the tourists there. But, um, certainly he, um, his psychiatrist was very happy with the result. And when I got married, I said to my husband ‘I will not name a son Jeffrey. Absolutely not.’ And, um, we have three daughters, two of whom have wonderful husbands named Jeffrey. EG [0:16:21]: Wow! That is a unique experience there! �LT [0:16:24]: There was another story that I haven't written yet. There's a couple more vignettes, but the, at the time that we were in the psych rotation, Marilyn Monroe was admitted to Columbia hospital to the neurological unit and we all knew she was there and we all wanted to get a peek at her. But of course, it was well protected. And we knew the day she was leaving, but they took her out. All the hospitals in New York have what are known as tunnels underneath the ground. They connect the buildings. They’re usually pretty dank, dark places. Um, it's where we keep all the storage supplies and the janitorial supplies, but they took Marilyn out through the tunnels so that nobody, the news media could not get ahold of her at all. EG [0:17:16]: Wow. I’ve run out of questions I’m supposed to ask you! (both chuckle) But do you have any, any other anecdotes or anything else you'd like to say about this and nursing program? LT [0:17:25]: No, I have one more vignette that I'm going to be sending out, concerning some of the changes in medicine. You know, from the time that I was there. We, we had a ward at the university hospital about six beds that the students who didn't get into to give care, but they had severe, um, dermatological conditions. And, um, the year that we were there, it was the first year we were there, um, the docs had discovered a medication, a miracle medication by the name of Cortizone. And so, they, that was working wonders with the skin patients. It was, um, the, the inflammation was decreasing... beautifully. They sent a couple of the patients home for Thanksgiving dinner and when they came back, they had colds and by Christmas, half of that ward was dead because the steroids mask the infection. And so, there was a lot to be learned there. Um, gosh, I can't right now. I don't, I don't have it on the top of my head, but some of, some of those other things that I've seen change. When I was an OB, there was a drug named called “the twilight sleep”, and the name of it was, Scopolamine. They would give it to the high-end mothers, um, you know, the private patients to try and help ease their pain, during the, uh, the labor and delivery. And it was, uh, it, it was not a twilight sleep. I can remember three of us nurses laying on a mother, trying to keep her in bed. They just, they just kind of went wild and oh, said nasty, horrible things. And I still remember when I had our first child, I kept saying to the doctor “don't get me Scopolamine, don't give me Scopolamine.” And I don't know by the time I had children, whether that was a drug of use or not, but it certainly was when I was, uh, in the OB rotation. EG [0:19:27]: Wow. Well, but if you remember anything else and want to write about it, that would be wonderful. LT [0:19:36]: Well, I'll add one more thing. I am an only child, but I am the eldest of nine �pregnancies. Um, I was born in the 1940s. My mother was RH negative and as a result my blood type was positive. They didn't know much about positive and negative at that time. They really had not discovered the typing until, um, into the, in the war years. But the result is that my blood, because it was positive and it interacted with my mother's blood, but she built up antibodies to kill my red blood cells. Well I, I survived, but the siblings after me did not. When I was at OB, they had developed a new treatment for those babies that were born in that kind of an instance. And it was a total blood exchange. They would take the blood out of the baby and give new blood and I, I begged them to let me watch that particular procedure, which they understood my interest in it. Um, now, uh, I have a daughter who is RH negative and, but now they have a thing called Volga-M that they give to them immediately so that they don't develop those antibodies. So those are just some of the things I remember. EG [0:20:50]: Okay. Thank you so much for sharing. This is wonderful. LT [0:20:58]: I think that's about it. As I said, I had a couple of those vignettes about how medicine has changed. EG [0:21:06]: No, but yeah no. I think this is great. Thank you so much. LT [0:21:09]: And I don't know. I don't know. Did you, did you have an opportunity to do a little delving into the different types of programs? Um, that ended up with nursing? EG [0:21:19]: A little bit. I, we’re kind of, over the semester getting to know a little bit more. I've been working in the archives up in the library, kind of a sorting through stuff, learning more about the, the nursing program and everything else going on at that point. LT [0:21:37]: And I think I wrote one about state boards and how they've changed over the years. Well, so… EG [0:21:45]: Oh yes, yes did. LT [0:21:49]: …and just as a quick, quick course for you, basically the nurses were trained in, in the hospitals as basically slaves in the diploma program. And um, back in, during World War II, they started the collegiate program. And, um, one of the things about the collegiate program is that you did not have nearly as much clinical experience and believe you, me, those gals that came out with a diploma, the three-year diploma program, knew their stuff. And, um, uh, then, um, a gal from Columbia working on her doctorate dissertation and I can't come up with her name right now, said ‘you know, we �should, we should make nursing available to married women and to people who don't have the money to go on to college.’ And she developed the two-year associate degree program for nursing. And there had always been a one-year practical nurse program. And then there's also the six-week certified nursing assistant’s program. And it's very confusing. And one of the things that happened was with the baccalaureate program, although they would promote us faster and RN licenses, and an RN license. So, whether you had a three-year education, or two-year education or a four-year education, the, the, the pay scale was the same. And I don't, I don't know how it is now, because of course I haven't been in hospital nursing. The pay scale is, it was entirely different at the teaching level. EG [0:23:31]: Gotcha. Yeah, that’s really insightful. LT [0:23:33]: And now of course we've, we've gone on to nurse practitioners, midwives, and um, so the, there's a lot for you to kind of pick up on. EG [0:23:44]: Yeah, wow. Well, any other closing thoughts you can think of? LT [0:23:54]: I can't think of anything else. No. And you’ve got a lot of transcribing to do! EG [0:24:00]: (chuckles) That's true. Um, but it will be a pleasure to do this. This is a wonderful, wonderful interview. LT [0:24:06]: Well, we're, we're leaving Tuesday for Spain for six weeks, so I won't, I won't be available to talk to after this. EG [0:24:15]: Oh, ok, well it’s a good thing we got this in now. LT [0:24:18]: And that's what, that's what I had, I had alerted your professor to that fact and that's why he's probably been pushing on you. EG [0:24:27]: Thank you so much for participating. This will be a wonderful addition to our, our new kind of archive. LT [0:24:36]: Okay, well thank you for taking the time. EG [0:24:39]: Oh, and if you don't mind, uh, stating your name for the record. LT [0:24:41]: Ok, Laura Triebold, maiden name at Skidmore was Engel, Class of ’62. �EG [0:24:56]: Gotcha, wonderful. And this is Emma Griffin, interviewing on February 13th of 2019 at 12:56pm. So, I think we're good. Thank you so much. LT [0:25:07]: Thank you very much. And Goodbye. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Laura Triebold '62 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Emma Griffin '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 26:06 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Laura Triebold '62 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 13, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/753a473d857c1bcbb42b4b251052d50a.jpeg 35ee4192421f1254efa58a2d863adf52 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/763760242d44813b3ad0cae31894fb54.mp4 5690402285a5706a825349e194379e8f https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/513e48cb6f3622ba5bee99feaea0f387.pdf 06b270d272fc2150da62b23ce13f91e3 PDF Text Text Interview with Virginia Saba '48 by Mohini Shrivastava '20, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, March 15, 2019. STEPHEN RIBE [00:00:01]: All right. I think we are good to go. VIRGINIA SABA [00:00:04]: Yes. Please. SR [00:00:07]: Great, So Dr. Saba Where were you from before you… Well first of all could you just introduce yourself again. VS [00:00:19]: This is Dr. Virginia Joseph Saba, graduated from Skidmore College as a bachelor of science in Nursing. I graduated in 1948. Prior to that time, I lived in Adams, Massachusetts where I graduated from high school in 1944 and entered Skidmore at that time. Done. SR [00:00:44]: Ok, fantastic. All right so, here's the first question… Where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore nursing program? VS [00:00:58]: I just told you, I was in Adams, Massachusetts. SR [00:00:57]: All right, but that's just in the list of questions, but I figured, well she already answered that. All right, the second question is, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? VS [00:01:13]: Yes, my father was a surgeon. SR [00:01:17]: OK and, um, OK so you mentioned that you went high school so I can skip that third question. All right. So, the next question is, what drew you to this program, the Skidmore program? VS [00:01:30]: I received a scholarship to attend Skidmore. SR [00:01:39]: OK. Was that it or was there anything else? VS [00:01:45]: No. No. Well my sister was also a student at Skidmore, upper class. SR [00:01:53]: OK. And she was not in the nursing program? VS [00:01:57]: No, she was in the English program. SR [00:01:59]: OK. And what was your sense of the program before you started? VS [00:02:06]: I don't know. I mean you're in high school, you're asking a question that we never considered at the time. I went to Skidmore because I received a scholarship to attend Skidmore. When I got there, I signed up for the nursing program, period. There was no evaluating schools from one to the other. We didn't do it at that time. I was fortunate to �get a scholarship and that was good enough for me. I didn't look at any other school or even any other program. I just went to Skidmore and signed up in the nursing or in their science classes. SR [00:02:47]: Oh. Yeah that's definitely different from today where there's a whole big deal about you know which school you applied to and all that. VS [00:02:58]: No, I didn’t do any of that. SR [00:03:00]: OK. VS [00:03:03]: That’s what you do today, not what we did in those days. You have to remember Skidmore school of nursing at the baccalaureate level was one of the five nursing programs in the country that were in an academic environment receiving an academic degree. I didn't even know that at the time, but it was a new program in many new baccalaureate programs and I just happened to go to Skidmore because I lived close to Saratoga, I received a scholarship, and my sister was there. SR [00:03:42]: Yeah that makes sense. OK. So, the next question is, tell me about what it was like in the program. What was the structure of the program and what classes did you take? VS [00:04:00]: What classes did I take, I took classes that were required for the science program which later became the nursing program. I would have to look at the curriculum at that time to remember what classes I took. There was only one class you could take, they were all the science program classes. And I received all A's in most of the classes except one, and that was a Shakespeare class where I didn’t do so well on the exam, but all the others I received A+ or 100’s. And you know the Skidmore program at that time was one year in Saratoga, two years in New York, and then one year back in Saratoga, and then they added six more months on it. In other words, after the students graduated in June, we had to go six more months to finish the nursing curriculum. So theoretically I finished in Fall of ’48, not June of ’48 like the other students. SR [00:05:12]: Is there anything else you'd like to say about, you know, life at Skidmore or life in York City, what it was like you know, training? VS [00:05:32]: It wasn’t training, it was education, there’s a big difference. Clinical experience is not training. That's what they used in hospital schools in nursing, not academic ones. The program was just fine. I enjoyed whatever they offered, we moved from hospital to hospital to get different clinical specialties, and that was really interesting and exciting. I was with one group that kept moving around and our group moved around from New York to New Haven, Connecticut for public health to, I think it’s Syracuse, NY for tuberculosis. And the rest were in New York City, from New York Hospital for obstetric, we had something called Communicable Disease, it's a hospital that no longer exists. And �then we went up to Columbia Presbyterian, I can't remember why we were there. It was the program as established, an exciting program with only one like it in the country and it was very challenging and I enjoyed it completely. I had great marks, I pride on the whole program and because of our academics… The one thing we had that other schools didn't have. We never had night duty because most other schools made students work at night. We didn't work anywhere any time. We were always a student in the environment, there to learn, not to use our hands to provide service. And for that reason, we graduated with a little elite-ness in our background. SR [00:07:20]: OK. So, the next question is, how would you compare the campus portion of the program to the New York City portion of the program? VS [00:07:28]: Oh they’re two different portions. One was purely academic and the other was purely clinical. And it still exists that way, you have two years of academic and two years of clinical in the average baccalaureate program. Most of them are two years academic and then the last two years are clinical. We had one-two-one, which was unusual but it was nicer to have one-two-one because then we graduated with our class classmates and got to really know them in our senior year a little bit, but we we wouldn’t have had we had the two-two program. SR [00:08:07]: OK. And so, I read about your bio that you sent me and your nursing informatics and the work that you did after. So, could you tell us a little bit about that? What was your path after Skidmore? VS [00:08:23]: Well you have to realize that Skidmore gave us an excellent baccalaureate level degree in the field of health, science, and nursing. It was a unique program. It was a small class. I think I’d consider it small, I don't remember the number, but we had a very bright group. First of all, we were all admitted as scholars all graduating on the academic tracks of our high schools. So therefore, we were all sort of quite bright, knowledgeable [unknown]. They were you could say potential leaders [unknown]. Skidmore graduates in nursing all became very important people in the field of nursing. Then unfortunately when Skidmore closed its doors over a weekend without any recourse, without any consideration or discussion with the students and faculty, we were very disappointed and very hurt. We all had formed a committee in New York City and in Washington where I happened to be at the time, and we tried to get them to keep the program open and because they lost the building in New York purely for money to move to the campus, we suggested they contract with some hospitals up in New York, Saratoga, or Albany to keep the program going, but they refused to do so and lost the nursing department completely. And while all the other baccalaureate programs were expanding around the country; the Skidmore program died, which is very unfair. Without any scientific basis other than dollars and cents and money. So, because of that, I have not been very happy with what Skidmore has done. They’re trying to say that they now teach nursing by making students go to the whole baccalaureate program and then two years in New York somewhere to get a nursing degree. But you can do that in any baccalaureate program throughout the country. So, it's not novel for Skidmore and that's a false accusation. We do that at Georgetown. We do that at George Mason. We do that in University of Maryland. �Nothing new. Anybody that has a baccalaureate preogram degree in some science background can get a nursing degree. Not just in two years but in one year in many cases. And then the other program they are starting is pre-med. That's another fallacy. Why don't they just go back and regain their reputation in the nursing field. And start the school of nursing again or combined with another school in Troy, New York and make it a regional nursing program. VS [00:11:35]: My career, well it's been a fortunate one. I’ve had a very good career and I guess it started because I was able to become an officer in the public health service which gave me national visibility, national leadership in nursing and that just railroaded into a new specialty as computers expanded in health care. And that's pretty much where I spent most of my career. I was either in the Public Health Service working with technology or teaching at Georgetown. USUHS (Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences) University and I coached at other universities in the field of computer technology now called nursing informatics and it was still a specialty that's been approved by our nursing profession and academic schools around the world. SR [00:12:41]: Great. So, then the question is, how did you integrate what you learned at Skidmore in that career? VS [00:12:55]: Well you know that's an interesting question… you mean, how did I integrate… I learned nursing, that’s the only thing I knew. So, in my job I practiced my profession. How did I practice my profession? Well in the government or in the public health service, I was in charge of collecting the census for nursing services across the country for the federal government, which I did. Of course, I was a key leader in the U.S. Public Health Service, but I worked with every state nursing director in the country, I worked with many nursing agencies in the country. So as a result of my job, I knew practically everybody in public health nursing. And what was I doing, I was collecting the census. So, I was developing that survey or coding the survey too, and I think it was a combination of nursing knowledge and statistical background which I guess I just had a natural knack for. And after that when I taught, I taught the first course in nursing technology at Georgetown University. I worked with the clinical center of the National Institute of Health working on nursing content into the electronic health records which were being introduced at that time. And that's what I've been doing for the last 20 years. I also developed a million dollar grant to develop a nursing terminology for documenting nursing practice which is still being used right now around the world and I'm quite fortunate to see it materialize as it took a long time because the American Nurses Association is a professional organization. The government won’t implement anything unless a professional organization approves of it, and they have approved of more than one nursing terminology which had been a little difficult at the time. But right now, this year, 2019, the Veterans Administration has ordered that the terminology be implemented in every V.A. hospital across the country and it will also expand to every DOD hospital across the country because they have to talk to each other too. It is required that the DOD soldiers alumni talks to the V.A. and the V.A. is still learning how they're going to talk to [unknown]. So that’s a multi-million-dollar project going on in this is its first year. I don't know who's doing that but I can't answer it right now, it’ll stop. �VS [00:16:20]: And so, here I am still. I mean I'm semi-retired but I really am still involved in the promotion of nursing content in the electronic health record and the legislation that impacts on the electronic health record and in the professional organizations that impact on electronic health records nationally and internationally as well. So, I've been pretty active, right now my co-author and I are preparing the seventh edition of the Essentials of Nursing Informatics. We previously called it the Essentials of Computer Technology in Nursing. Our first edition was in 1986. And so, this is the seventh edition. So, we've been doing this for 20 years. The two of us and Dr. Kathleen McCormick who was also a public health nursing officer and worked at the clinical center of the National Institutes of Health. It becomes a lifetime profession. You just don't stop when you retire. You continue to teach, write, get involved, help the new students or new nurses become experts in the field. And I don't know if that was because of Skidmore or just because of my own personal drive. I can't really say, but I did have a good foundation at Skidmore. It was one of the best in the country and it was sad when it stopped. VS [00:17:44]: Well, I guess I was working at the U.S. Public Health Service at the time, I happened to be in Washington and in my office one day, another Skidmore graduate, who was either on the board, or influential at another level with Skidmore. She was a nursing… she was an English major and she was working in the library and she was a librarian. But she was in the U.S. Public Health Service as a writer for the legislation. We both heard of it at the same time and she just, um Gretchen, I can't remember her name, I wish I could. If I find it, I'll send it to you. She took the lead and we formed a committee, a group of us interested in the program and filed a petition against the Skidmore board to reopen or reconsider just relocating the School of Nursing clinical area to someplace up in Saratoga or Troy or someplace in upper New York State so they wouldn't have to close the program because that was where, New York City is only where we did our clinical. It wasn't where we did our academic work, so since we went to Skidmore in Saratoga for our academic work. They could have found another place to house the clinical experiences around Saratoga somewhere. VS [00:19:19]: So, we filed a petition and got a lot of alumni to respond to it and she handled the submission, but I don’t even know if we ever got an answer or anything. It was just not accepted and with that we just sort of all felt very rejected, we felt very not considered important to Skidmore as an academic institution. And when you drop a whole program, it's says well we don't respect the students, we don't respect the faculty, we don't respect the program, so it didn't matter. We had one of the best deans in the country, Agnes Gelinas, running that school, now considered a folklore for one of the best pioneers in nursing in the country; academically teaching nursing in the country. So, they goofed. So, I stopped going to alumni association meetings. I stopped donating money. I just give ten dollars a year so the class will have 100 percent participation, but I'm giving my money elsewhere. SR [00:20:30]: Mm hmm. Yeah. �VS [00:20:32]: They have done nothing for me once I graduated. It’s kind of too bad. SR [00:20:44]: Yea, we were looking at some of the photos of the protests they had on campus from the students. [VS: Really?] Yeah. They had, they had protests on campus. Yeah. According to what we read, it was really just a money decision, basically. [VS: Yeah I know.] Yeah, very financial. VS [00:21:09]: Which is ok, but they could have moved the clinical up to Troy, Albany, there's plenty of hospitals up in that area that could have taken students who didn’t have a program. They could've taken the clinical content, doesn't matter what hospital you're learning clinical content. It could have been done very easily. All it would take is for the faculty to go take a look at some of those hospitals and take their curriculum north. It wasn’t an impossible business and I'm sure at that time the hospitals would have been glad to have baccalaureate students working or learning in their hospitals. That's what they’re doing now. The baccalaureate students are going to their local hospital and getting their clinical that way. It hasn't changed. Unfortunately, nursing hasn’t changed in the last 40 years since the 1940s when Dr. Virginia “Ginny” Henderson claimed it was a professional profession, so what can I say. One of my deans, well not one of my deans, but the dean at the University of Maryland, Jane Allen was a Skidmore graduate and I guest lecture up there and teach in the summer institute. And we would talk about the Skidmore program I don't know where my yearbook is either. I guess they’re looking for yearbooks from my year, I don't even know what happened to my yearbook. When you have too many moves, things get lost. VS [00:23:01]: So, I'm glad you're doing this survey. I'm glad you're going to get information from all of us. They’re probably all going to be about the same, please open the school of nursing. I don't know if it's too late or not. But it's never too late to start with a small program and see what happens. SR [00:23:30]: Mhmm. Yeah. OK. Well that concludes the interview. That's all I've got for you. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Stephen Ribe Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dr. Virginia Saba Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Judy Brinckerhoff, Jesse O'Connell Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 23:33 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dr. Virginia Saba '48 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. July 18, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/706d82f56e71448e194cce7962f0e784.jpg 36f64b4ecb28ddec382e0eef3f05e757 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/a25d6c92fed4918077a09e147c0089fd.m4a 841ce9e5026ad4ba85dc76903ba47e35 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/a48f13f1eb9b0f053e7ee45e18ec6bcf.pdf 5353ff1756652feeea1dfe5e0acdf922 PDF Text Text Interview with Judy Brinckerhoff '72 by Mohini Shrivastava '20, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, March 15, 2019. MOHINI SHRIVASTAVA [0:00:00]: My name is Mohini Shrivastava and I am here conducting an interview with Judy Brinckerhoff for the Skidmore College Nursing Program Memory Project. It is March 15, 2019 at 7:30 pm. This interview is being conducted in person at the home of Judy. Now, let’s start with a couple background questions. Where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore’s nursing program? JUDY BRINCKERHOFF [0:00:29]: I was from Darien, Connecticut. MS [0:00:32]: Okay, and did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? JB [0:00:38]: Yes. My mother was actually a World War II nurse, an Army nurse. And she would say to me, ‘whatever you do, don’t become a nurse.’ And, I wanted, I thought I wanted to become a teacher. And she kept saying, ‘don’t be a nurse, don’t be a nurse.’ But, this was in the late 50s and 60s, and I watched her talking on the phone with her friends that she met at work, her nursing friends. And I watched her patients send her cards and thank-you notes and I watched how, how much fulfillment she had, from both her friends and her patients, and I thought well this can’t be that bad, because she seems to like it. And, then, I think I mentioned that I was looking at Georgetown, for the School of Foreign Service and at that time there were very few women there, so I came back, and I had felt very intimidated by my interview. And then I thought well I’ll just become a nurse, because there were far more women in Georgetown than there were in the nursing program any place else. And then when I went to Skidmore’s Open House, in New York City, I think in November of my junior year, that just flipped the switch for me. I said, ‘I’m going to be a nurse and I’m going to look at Skidmore.’ MS [0:02:10]: Okay, so that’s partially what drew you to the nursing program? JB [0:02:14]: What drew me is that I think it was a comfortable occupation, something that I could relate to. And it was just that time in history that there weren’t teachers out there saying you can be anything you want. There weren’t teachers saying, ‘oh be a lawyer, be a doctor,’ nobody really said anything. It was up to me, and so I didn’t know that many career paths and yet my mother was a nurse. So that’s why I chose nursing. MS [0:02:46]: Okay, and what was your sense of the program before it started? Judy [0:02:51]: That it was fabulous. Again, my first introduction to the program was the open house in New York City in the fall of my junior year. It was at NYU, and the older Skidmore nursing majors were there to greet all these high school students and they were so welcoming and so friendly and so enthusiastic that I didn’t even think about how hard the program was. It just looked like so much fun, and they were on a mission. They seemed to be focused and they seemed to have a purpose in life. I was this high school junior, and these girls all seemed so mature and so sure of themselves. That’s what I wanted. �MS [0:03:35]: Alright, so tell us a little more about the program itself - the classes, social life, how it was being in the program. JB [0:03:45]: So, our first year we were on campus, on the old campus, we were mixed with all of the other freshmen. The nursing majors were all on the same campus together. So, we were all in anatomy together, chemistry together, sociology, microbiology. We sought each other out, had our labs together. We fairly quickly, I can’t even imagine, I don’t think it was less, more than a week before I knew who my nursing major friends were, and we just connected. And we started to study together, eat together, socialize together. MS [0:04:29]: Alright, so, and how would you compare the campus portion to the New York City portion? JB [0:04:36]: New York City was fabulous, it was, we were young, we were in this building downtown, we were living without any adults, there might have been a dorm mother, but we never saw her. We were in this building where we did our own shopping, our own cooking, our own laundry. We sat around the table, we made our own meals, we did our own dishes, we studied, we stayed up late, we helped each other. On the weekends, you know, we would ride the city buses down to Chinatown. And, we were at a major university, a major medical center, so our patients at NYU were the very sickest. We saw very rare conditions. It was, it was a very fulfilling time, very exciting. The Saratoga campus seemed calm in comparison. It seemed like a vacation, in comparison. MS [0:05:45]: Okay, so would you have wished for there to be more time in New York City? JB [0:05:50]: No, no it was sophomore year and then sophomore summer, junior year and junior summer. So, we were really ready to come back by senior year. But then we were ready to graduate. MS [0:06:05]: So, would, did you like the classes you had to take on campus during senior year? Did you feel like you didn’t need those and you could have graduated? JB [0:06:15]: No, I think we knew that we needed the liberal arts. Did they fulfill us, sustain us? No, I can't think of any that really, they were classes that we had to take. We did the 4-14 in our, January of our senior, no our research project, it was our senior research project. We went to Boston and did a recruiting program there and that was fulfilling. But again, that was nursing research and it was a project led by the head of the program, Doctor Jean Campbell. No, we wanted to be, we wanted to get our careers in nursing going, so anything else was something to do. MS [0:07:01]: Okay, and what was your path after Skidmore? JB [0:07:06]: Well, my junior year, most of my friends were going to be staying in New York, living and working in the major New York City hospitals. And I wanted something different and my mom had been an Army nurse, my dad had been in the Navy, my �brother was at the Naval Academy, and I decided I wanted to try the Navy. And I talked one of my Skidmore friends into coming to a recruiting meeting and the Navy recruiter was a Navy Nurse Corps officer. And she came to the dorm at Fahnestock, and walked in, and she showed a movie. And only two of us were there, me and my friend, nobody else would come, because this was the height of Vietnam. And she showed us a movie of the hospital ship and the movie had nurses hanging IVs with injured sailors and she had, she had like blood on her face and she was sweating and she had this dramatic look on her face. And I was just totally enamored, and I said, ‘oh man this is for me, I don’t want to stay in New York. I want to join the Navy and see the world.’ So, Cas and I both took the Oath of Office, and I think it was summer or spring of our junior year. And then we were made hospital corpsmen. The Navy paid for our senior year of college and we were paid a salary, a corpsman salary, for our entire senior year. So, we were floating in money. MS [0:08:43]: That’s nice. And, how, if you did, integrate what you learned at Skidmore into your career? What were your experiences? JB [0:08:55]: Well, so, the big thing at the time was degree nurses, a four-year degree nurse, does not have as much practical experience as a three-year diploma nurse. Hospitals had diploma programs. They were three years. And basically, in the three years, a diploma nurse worked and studied at the hospital, and studied primarily nursing, no liberal arts, whereas the four-year degree nurses had liberal arts and clinical. So, there was competition between the three-year diploma and the four-year degree nurses. The diploma nurses had more clinical experience but the degree nurses had a better academic preparation. So, when I got to my first duty station, I was full of academics and I knew what was right and what was wrong. And, on my first day, the Commanding Officer handed me a syringe and said, would you pre-medicate this patient? And I said “Ooh you must be joking. I didn’t draw up this medication and I don’t know who this patient is.” And he was really angry at me, because I just didn’t follow his order. But, because I knew that you have to draw up the medication from the bottle with the label on it, and you have to know who you’re giving it to, it was an automatic response to say, no I can’t do that. But he thought I was a wise guy and, you know, he eventually left the Navy and I got promoted. MS [0:10:34]: Well, something useful then. Okay, I thought there was something else. JB [0:10:46]: Well, graduate school. I mean, we were definitely prepared. We had to write evaluations on our corpsmen. Writing was easy for us because we knew how to put a sentence together. Reading was easy for us. We could talk to different specialties and we weren’t just, sort of pigeon-holed as nurses, we were professionals. MS [0:11:10]: Alright, so, the closing of the program. That’s obviously the important thing here. Tell me about the closing. JB [0:11:26]: It was heartbreaking. By that time, I think I was in Korea, or maybe back in �Bethesda. A couple of my friends were teaching in the program. We could see that it was coming. We knew that the nursing profession was growing. We were very disappointed in the school for not having the whatever, fortitude, to stick with the program. It didn’t matter to us that the New York City campus was more expensive. We saw where our education had enabled us to leapfrog ahead of our peers, and we were working with nurses who hadn’t had the opportunity to have a Skidmore education and there was no comparison. And, it’s, I wouldn’t say burned a hole, it’s been a sad, it’s been a bad feeling for a long time, and it’s hard to get over. You know I can understand that times change and people move on, but I think the school, it would have been interesting to see if they had fought harder for it. MS [0:12:41]: And, do you feel like there’s an empty place if, I know you don’t go back to campus a lot, but, an empty place, as, when other alumni come, they meet their own majors, which still exist. JB [0:12:57]: No, we are so tight. We, one of, one of our friends met a guy when we were, I guess sophomores or juniors, and he nicknamed us “The Follies,” because it was always drama, and there was always fun and laughing, and he named us “The Follies,” the nursing majors. And we now refer to ourselves as “The Follies” and we don’t have to go to campus. We can meet here in Washington, we can meet in New York, we can go Boston, wherever we go, it only takes one or two of us, and we’re fine. We just reunite all the time. Now I will say, when I go back to campus for events, I always have a good time seeing people that were non-nursing majors. I just didn’t have the bond with them, that I have with the nursing majors. And, because I do work, these alumni reunions are always held in early June and school is still in session, so it’s very hard for me to get away. And, it’s just hard. And if you have children, it’s hard to leave because June is the time when their events are going on and, it was hard to get back for an alumni event. But, we always had a good time when we did. MS [0:14:23]: That’s good, and one more detail, how did you hear the news that the program was going to be closed? JB [0:14:30]: From the other nursing majors. It was like instant. I mean it was before the Internet but the phones were buzzing. Oh, instant drama. Instant. Intense. Heart...oh, yeah, terrible. Because, you know, you put your name on a school and your diploma on a school and you think no one's going to know what that program is. And that’s, in fact, what’s happened. Now, when you say you went to Skidmore, you’re usually saying it in front of people who may have had a brother who went there, who may have been a business major or something, and it’s just a totally different atmosphere. And it doesn’t have the same competitive ring that it had, at least for me, when we were there. MS [0:15:21]: Okay, alright, that’s all the questions that I have from my side. Thank you so much for accepting the interview. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Mohini Shrivastava '20 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Judy Brinckerhoff '72 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 15:30 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Judy Brinckerhoff, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Judy Brinckerhoff '72 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 15, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/278d386d461b81805e667082cb6f789b.jpeg 993407140f6bd47edd551a5d9f0df259 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/0beefc5eec81f5429e460fc39a956312.jpeg c3448d48f71c143a3f4313f5c9dac8b2 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/06e36373f0ebaf40ec675561fcaca649.m4a b8c52b93b0ceea6beff976b44dec4dda https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/7a6968b62671a43a2af08dd2e41e47e0.pdf 20530e46802ece5c5ebab5ccc7a0a15b PDF Text Text Interview with Elizabeth (Liz) Waxman '83 by Xiaoxuan (Shelley) Tan '20, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. SHELLEY TAN: So, hi Liz, where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? LIZ WAXMAN: Hi Shelley. I was, I was born and bred a New Yorker. So, at the time I decided to go to Skidmore College and its nursing program, I was in high school in Manhattan. ST: So, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? LW: Well, um, my family, as the question is, did my, did or does my family have a background in medicine or nursing? Um, the simplest answer to that is no. My father owned a retail business. Ironically, my late uncle was a physician and my two older siblings are physicians. Um, I had an interest in nursing because I knew I wanted to be in the healthcare field. ST: So, what was your educational background before you joined the program--the nursing program? LW: Well, my background was, uh, a high school graduate. I applied to Skidmore College and so my background was the mandatory freshman year courses for the nursing program. Um, and I passed all of those courses and was entered into the nursing program. ST: So, what drew you to the program? It's actually, you just go on this, the background thing. You can probably say a little bit more about that? LW: Okay. A very simply, uh, the training in New York drew me to the program. That was probably the, the key to my applying to Skidmore in all honesty. Um, it's not that I went home every week because I certainly didn't, I had a lot of studying to do, but it was nice being close to my family. I was able to see my newborn nephew more frequently than if I had gone anywhere else. And when I look back at my nursing training from Skidmore, it’s helped me every step of the way in my career. So, without a doubt it was the, uh, Manhattan nursing program that drew me to the school. ST: Yeah. So what parts of the program as a whole? LW: I liked the clinical rotations, especially in the medical surgical rotations. Um, and I felt because it was such a small program, I felt close to the instructors. I didn't feel that I was one of a hundred students in the large lecture hall. Um, and I also felt close to my classmates. Um, so it was a very nice feeling of, um, I don't want to say family, but it was just a very nice feeling, and we felt we were very well educated to our career is. Um, so I would say the clinical rotations were great. And the instructors, the instructors were great as well. �ST: Okay. So, what was your sense of the program before you started and also, if you can do it like, after you get into the program? LW: What was my sense with the program before I got in and after I finished? Um, my sense of the program before I was accepted to it was, I think I felt intimidated by the program because we, the nursing majors had a set required. Ah, um, the set, um, set of the required courses, um, so the requisites, that's the word I want, uh, freshman year. And I did well. I obviously I did well enough to get into the program. I didn't have to reapply. Um, when I finished the program, I had a sheer sense of accomplishment. It was not an easy program. There was a ton of work to do. Um, I probably saw less of my family when I was in the Manhattan campus than when I was in the Saratoga Springs campus. ST: So, what's the challenging part do you think of those? LW: Umm. I guess the challenge was learning the clinical skills and applying them in the hospital. Um, it's one thing to learn. How to take a blood pressure, how to give a shot in a classroom. It's another thing to have to give an injection to a child in the pediatric rotation and not have your hand shake. ST: So, what do you think you liked the most? So, you already talked about, it’s the Manhattan part. What's like the structure of it, like, what classes you'd take and you liked the most? LW: Well, in, in the nursing program, um, it was, the classes were really structured around the clinical semesters. So, you just started reading the chapters. I probably, with all the respect to the psych instructors, um, psych was my least favorite part of the nursing program and that has nothing to do with the program, and this has nothing to do with the instructors. I just was not good at it and it was a difficult and still is a difficult area for me in nursing. Um, I think I liked, uh, the statistics course we had to take, we certainly had an excellent instructor, Gloria Leventhal. Um, she made statistics very easy. ST: Okay. So, that's the part on the campus, right? LW: Um Manhattan, yeah. ST: The Manhattan campus. So, what do you have on, like, the Saratoga part, compared to the Manhattan part? LW: So, what was my favorite part of the Saratoga campus or the, uh, what was my favorite class? What is the question that I'm not answering? ST: Uh, it just like how you compare the two parts. There's not really need to be favorite or least favorite. LW: Well, the Saratoga campus is, just an extraordinarily beautiful campus and it's very nice, uh, together, uh, Case Green and Case Center. Um, it's always nice to see the leaves changing. I think what I liked about the Saratoga campus was being able to go outside �and outdoors, and sit with, sit with friends, um, and enjoy just some of the weekend, um, festivities they had up at the school. Um, we had those in Manhattan, but they were different, it was just a lot different. And, um, I think I had, I missed my two very good friends who were up at the Saratoga campus for all four years. I did miss them when I was in New York. ST: So, what's your path after Skidmore? Like how do you go on, on your career? LW: Well, my path after Skidmore was not a path I thought I would take, but after Skidmore I went to Israel for a year and worked as... on the program. It was kind of like the Israeli Peace Corps. So, I was able to work as a nurse in Israel. Um, I had a stipend and a room and board. Um, and that was really a great experience. And when I came back to the, to the U.S., to New York, um, it was just the start of the first nursing shortage and when I was applying to hospitals, a hospital that hired me was Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and never in a million years did I think I would be in oncology nursing and never in a million years did I think I would stay in oncology nursing but that is my career. ST: So, you are still doing like, that, right now? Okay, so would you like elaborate a bit on the Israel part? LW: Um, I, well first I have to say that after graduation I did not immediately pass my nursing boards for New York state so I couldn't get licensed. And so, I was able to get licensed as a lower, in a lower level health care field and do some home health. And that allowed me a little bit of income and a lot of time to study. So, when the nursing board was given again, I passed it. And, at that time I still wasn't sure where or what I wanted to do, and my sister knew of a nurse at her hospital who had been on this program and my sister said, ‘Why don't you talk to her?’ And I spoke to this nurse and she told me about this volunteer program, and I really had a good experience. I got a bird's eye view of some of, uh, the Israeli healthcare system, especially their health clinics. I can speak some Hebrew and the nurse I worked with in Israel was fluent in English, so she translated for me, but I was able to get along, to negotiate and make my way through Israel. Um, there were other people on the program, there were two other nurses and I'm actually in touch with one of my friends from Israel to this day. We're actually connected on Facebook, but, um, it, it was kind of, I'd have to say going to Israel and spending a year in Israel was my time to grow up. My parents weren't around the corner. I had to learn to make a stipend last a month, and with that stipend it was buying groceries and washing clothes and, you know, being an adult basically. Great experience. ST: Um, where do you work now? Just like, elaborated? LW: Well, right now I work at MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Houston. Uh, I'm a nurse practitioner, and my field is lung cancer. So, I see, uh, all of my patients have lung cancer at this time. Um, I do physical exams, I manage side effects of treatment, um, I do a lot of, um, edu... patient education in terms of side effects of treatment and, and again, how to manage them. Um, I work with a one, physician three days a week in clinic. �ST: Okay. So how do you integrate it, what you learned at Skidmore into that career and also outside of Skidmore? LW: Um, well it's the clinical skills that I learnt at Skidmore that have stayed with me and um, I would say I'm a good clinician in terms of examining a patient, um, and seeing the whole person, not just the disease aspect or what they're dealing with. And um, I would also say that, um, I have pretty good, um, psych... psychiatrics, I'm not an expert at it, but there are certain things I can detect and um, and help get the patients the help they need. ST: Okay. So, because you are graduated in the ending, like in ’83? LW: Yes. ST: So, it's really close to the end of the program. So, could you tell me something about how you feel about it or how's the situation? LW: Okay. Um, so I graduated in ’83 and two years later in 1985, the program closed and that was the final graduating class. I found out about it, I think we had a student led meeting, no faculty. And, uh, the student body president, or the nursing student body president told us the news. We tried so hard to save that program, it's not funny. I will be honest and maybe the college, will edit this out, but the whole process of the closing of the program has left and still leaves an extremely bad taste, for me. Um, as far, from my perspective, the board of Trustees decided to close the program and it was a done deal. Um, the student body from Saratoga was fast to react to this news and very vocal in their opposition to it. The entire Skidmore faculty was slow, slow to respond. Um, now that's my take on it. Some of my colleagues and friends from Skidmore may say differently. Um, it, it was going to close no matter what we did, and I wish somebody had had the guts to just say, it's closing, period, end of discussion. ST: Okay. So, because they're like reopen it in some way that they are sending students to work in the New York, but it's not really like reopening the whole department. So how do you feel about that? LW: Well, I've had a long time to think about it and at first, I thought, oh this is a nice way of still having nursing. But in reality, and this is, this is lost. When you were a graduate of the Skidmore College nursing program, that was a brand and every hospital you applied to, knew you had good training and good clinical skills because you would not have been in that program otherwise. The program they have now, it's great that the students get an excellent education from Skidmore, but those who are interested in nursing, go to NYU, and so they're an NYU nurse. And they're very good nurses, but they're not Skidmore nurses and I really don't think Skidmore should hang their hat on this program that's fasttracking students to another college…[phone rings]. Sorry… LW: So, as we were saying, so they're an NYU nurse and those are very good nurses as well, but the brand of a Skidmore nurse is gone and that's not going to be replaced. And I can't figure out how anybody is going to, want to go to a school, graduate from that school, �and then go to another school to be a nurse. I, I, it's like I, the, the finer details of the program need to be explained to me because I don't know if the students who come into this very broad science major and decide to go to the nursing, do they only go the Skidmore for two years and then they go to NYU? Or did they go to Skidmore for four years, graduate with a bachelor's of science, or whatever their degree is and then go to NYU and only have two years of their nursing program? I don't quite understand how that works. Um, and I, I don't know, I mean I understand who on the Board of Trustees came up with this, but it's, it's just not the same. ST: Okay. So, in that sense, how do you think a full Skidmore program helped you? Like how's that different, because you think now this is gone. What do you think they lost in that sense? LW: I just think they los... I, first of all, I think if they could, if the Board of Trustees or the faculty or the administration could have held out just a little longer, there was a resurgence in nursing applications to nursing schools and it would have been NYU and Skidmore as the two New York, top New York nursing programs. Um, I do know that when the nursing program closed, the building on 38th Street was sold. I know that for a fact and nobody has ever told me otherwise, but I'm sure the money, the sale of that building helped the school financially and I can’t argue with finances. ST: Okay. So, because it's very different that Skidmore is a liberal arts college, and in my idea, it is like nursing program at liberal arts college is rare. So, how do you think Skidmore as a liberal arts college having a nursing program, how, how did it help the nursing program and help the school... LW: Well, I think nursing at a liberal arts college makes sense because you have a well-rounded student who just didn't do a biology and chemistry classes. Uh, I mean my senior year I took whatever course I wanted, including a phys-ed class, early, um, elementary education class, um, um, fiction I took, you know, I had a broader education because I was at a liberal arts college. I think the nursing program could have helped the school because would, you would have had maybe an influx of students, um, going into that specific training. I mean, you have pre-med students at Skidmore, is, is being, is going for a career in medicine or neuroscience contradictory to a liberal arts college? No. And you have the, you know, you have UCLA with the School of Nursing. UCLA is a liberal arts school, is that contradictory? I don’t think so. ST: Okay. So, how do you think the liberal arts college in that sense, like, broader your ideas about nursing or how you work as a nurse? LW: The liberal arts part of my education allows me in my current, in what I do today to see things with different perspectives. Um, and I mean maybe because I took elementary education, but I can explain very difficult things very easily to patients and families. So, I think my liberal arts college on a day to day basis impacts what I do at MD Anderson. ST: I think we can go onto this just like summarize a few things like…bullet points... �LW: I mean I, Skidmore College was a perfect fit for me and I owe my introduction to Skidmore, to, uh, the headmaster of my, of my high school. He's now deceased, the late Anthony of Caperio the third, because he thought Skidmore would be a good fit for me. It was a small school. I wouldn't get lost in the thousands of students that larger school has. I would get, not necessarily a one on one education, but the faculty to student ratio would be much smaller. And I did feel for the most part, uh, excluding the nursing instructors, that the instructors from the main campus, maybe there are two exceptions, knew who I was. Um. I had the, I had a very good education from Skidmore. I do support the school. I think I'm one of the few nursing majors from the 1980s who supports the school, although I do not have that as on the, I don't have that information as accurate, so, this is something to edit out. Um, but there were a lot of hard feelings and to be honest with you, at reunion when I see some of my nursing friends, we still talk about it and it still hurts. Um, but I love going to Saratoga and I love the campus and I'm glad other students can benefit from the education provided by Skidmore. ST: Okay. So, would you just give like several words for us to use about how you feel about generally your nursing career and your nursing education? LW: I owe my nursing career to Skidmore College. ST: Okay. LW: Okay. Um, just a few more comments. Um, this came up at Reunion Weekend 2018 when one of the other nursing alumni said in Skidmore Scope, there is hardly ever any items about what Skidmore nurses have accomplished. And it seems to me that since the closing of the program in 1985, uh, Skidmore rather intentionally or unintentionally, has just about completely erased the history of the nursing program, uh, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Now I do support the school and I do send in when they ask me for alumni giving, uh, it's my understanding that in CIS there's supposed to be some type of wall or history of the nursing program, and I hope to high heaven the promise is kept. I know President Glotzbach is leaving in 2020. So, I hope that nursing tribute stays in CIS because quite frankly, if it doesn't, I and a few other nurses whose do support the school will probably stop supporting the school completely. [End] � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Xiaoxuan "Shelley" Tan '20 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elizabeth "Liz" Waxman '83 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 25:56 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Liz Waxman, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Elizabeth "Liz" Waxman '83 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 6, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/0c3fe26efc84d06b4989210e1fc4240e.jpg 54f7444211f786970c89cb6974e167ad https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/af11e1bd8624588c2a0b075b810eee82.m4a 1a3b865a82b08dfb759bee892643e8a7 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/d04d2b784bba37366a89d3000764bffd.pdf ca3e1501c04834fbb36171e7020a9344 PDF Text Text Interview with Rothlyn Zahourek '65 by Stephen Ribe '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been added to provide context by the interviewee for ease of reading and further information. STEPHEN RIBE [00:00:00]: OK, so the first question is - Where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore’s nursing program. ROTHLYN ZAHOUREK [00:00:07]: OK. I was born and raised in upstate New York, Rochester, and I was in high school before I applied to Skidmore and decided to apply to Skidmore because I was a little ambivalent about whether I could do nursing or to do something like English or science. And I felt they had a good enough English program and a good enough science program that if I decided to change my mind, I could do that. And they gave me a very nice financial aid package which I desperately needed SR [00:00:54]: OK, is that... Oh, maybe we should have a system where you say a word when you indicate that you're done. RZ [00:01:02]: OK. I'm done. SR [00:01:05]: You could just say I'm done actually RZ [00:01:06]: I'm done. SR [00:01:07]: Yeah. That's perfect. It's interesting, I'm actually, my brother went to the University of Rochester. RZ [00:01:14]: Really? SR [00:01:15]: Yeah, so I went up there. The Kodak plant doesn't look too active anymore. RZ [00:01:19]: No [laughing], it isn’t. SR [00:01:22]: He uh, he pointed it out to us, it was, you know, it was there, but it turns out the university is the main player in Rochester now. RZ [00:01:32]: It certainly seems to be since I’ve been back to Rochester. SR [00:01:39]: Yeah, OK great. And so, the second question is, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? RZ [00:01:49]: No they did not. Done, I’m done. SR [00:01:56]: Oh, cool, cool. �RZ [00:01:57]: Sorry! [laughing] SR [00:01:59]: Yeah, no, no, that's good. And what was your educational background before you joined this program or your work history too? RZ [00:02:08]: I was, I was just finishing high school so I hadn’t really... The only thing I had done was worked at a department store or worked at an office over summers, and that was essentially it. I had done some candy striping, working as a volunteer in the hospital and delivering flowers and stuff like that. Done. SR [00:02:36]: Oh ok, cool. Did your experience volunteering in the hospital affect your decision to try nursing or go into nursing? RZ [00:02:44]: I think probably it did. I'd wanted to be a nurse since I was 4 years old. So it just, I mean, I read every nursing book I could get my hands on in terms of all the novels that were about nurses and so I really wanted to work at a hospital and I think it was helpful in just giving me a taste of what it was like to work in a hospital. I'd been sick as a kid so I’d spent a lot of time as a patient in the hospital. And that was not a very happy experience. SR [00:03:21]: Ok. What was your sense of the program before you started? RZ [00:03:26]: I really didn't have much of a sense of the program before I started. Again, I was 17 years old and I knew that the nursing program was well thought of. I had no idea how astoundingly different and phenomenal it was until much later and I knew they had solid liberal arts, which I was also interested in. Done. SR [00:03:54]: OK. Tell me about what it was like in the program. What was the structure of the program and what kind of classes did you take? RZ [00:04:04]: The structure was... I graduated in 1965. So, I entered in ‘61. The structure was very rigorous. Freshman year was all sciences plus English, composition, which all freshman had to take. And you had to have a PE requirement, but we did anatomy and physiology, chemistry, microbiology and one of the social sciences I think, one semester was sociology and one semester was psychology. And I have to tell you we were the busiest freshmen. All of our classmates were able to play bridge and you know, go out on the weekends. And we were always in labs and we were always studying. So, the program was known to be the hardest program at Skidmore, particularly for freshmen coming in. Then, do you want the rest, do you want me to tell you the rest of the program? SR [00:05:08]: Yeah, that would be great. RZ [00:05:10]: OK. The first summer we went to New York City and we were given white �uniforms, white stockings, and white shoes, and a cap no less; a white cap. And it was our first clinical experience and we had to, we were put on a ward with an instructor in groups of I guess six or seven and we were expected to begin to communicate with patients and do odd jobs. We were guided by the nurses and we would have a conference in which, we made jokes about. A faculty member and a psychiatrist from a psychoanalytic institute came and we had a "feelings group" that we actually all made jokes about because they constantly asked us what we did during our shift on the wards and we would tell them and they would say, ‘well how did you feel about that?’ And so, it became a big joke. ‘How did you feel about what you experienced?’ Although in retrospect that was really very important and very useful because many of us ended up in psychiatry [laughing] as time went on. So, that was the first summer and it was my first time in New York City. It was the first time for a lot of the women in the class to be in New York City. We lived on two floors in a dorm for medical students right across the street from Bellevue Hospital psychiatric. So, it was a very big experience, social experience and educational experience. For, you know, we were all 18- or 19-year-old. So, then the next two years were clinical years in New York and we did what then were considered to be pretty standard rotations. We did medical surgical nursing. We did all the pediatrics and then they had a very unique thing for our junior year -- I think junior year. I'm pretty sure Junior year, we had psych and public health together in the same week. So, we did two days of clinical psych and two days of public health psych and one day of classes. So again, we did not have the usual college student schedule of you know, a few classes and a whole day off and a few more classes and a day off. We were busy all the time. RZ [00:08:11]: So then, that summer after junior year, we were actually free to work between sophomore and junior year. Many of us took the LPN licensing exam which I did and I worked that summer as an LPN at the University of Rochester Hospital Strong Memorial. And then junior year we finished those rotations (psych and public health) and for many of us those rotations really resonated with us. And I'm not sure how many in our class ended up in psych mental health, but I would say at least a third of our class ended up in psych mental health as a result of the experience which was very positive. Which is also surprising because the psych nursing experience, it can be really upsetting for nursing students. It can be frightening. It can be confusing. People often start questioning their own mental health while they're in that experience so it's a difficult experience for young students. So, after that we had to be in New York for the summer between junior and senior year and in that summer we were able to do an independent study that we picked, and also we had an elective liberal arts class. It was actually really fun. One of the professors from the government department on campus came down once a week and we had a class on current events and that was great. We talked about plays, we actually went to a play as a group, we talked about politics, it was really very enriching that class. RZ [00:10:37]: We also had a seminar where we were talking about nursing issues and then the clinical, and my clinical elective was with a married couple’s group with a psychologist at the VA. And that was a really a very good experience. I felt very fortunate to be given that experience. And then senior year we went back to campus and I think this was the most unusual part of the program in that I know of no other program that had split �clinical and academics like Skidmore did. So we went back to campus and there we did all of our liberal arts electives and a senior nursing seminar with Agnes Gelinas who was the director of the program at that time. We were her last class. Interestingly enough, many of the liberal arts professors said they'd love to have nursing students in their classrooms because we were far more mature than the other students that they had in their classes. We'd experienced birth, we'd experienced death, we'd experienced patients with horrible issues, and chronic illness. Then out in the community in the depths of New York City visiting very impoverished areas. You know we were a very different group that came back to campus that had actually left campus freshman year. So we had electives and then we had this one seminar with Agnes Gelinas and it was really terrific. She essentially sent us on our way with all kinds of messages to be professional -- that we were professional and that we should always be a part of our professional organization, etc. I guess partially due to her influence when we graduated we refused to say the Florence Nightingale pledge. It's actually a wonderful pledge but it implies we thought, that you will do whatever a physician tells you to do. And this is 1965 and we decided we didn't want to say that. So, we wrote our own pledge and gave it and that pledge is on the wall in the science building. SR [00:13:28]: Oh OK. RZ [00:13:34]: So, done. That was a long one [laughing]. SR [00:13:35]: Yea, no that was great. OK, so that was good. That was really good. Yeah. Tons of detail. OK so then, the next question is more about your path after Skidmore. So, what was your path after Skidmore and where did you work? RZ [00:13:56]: OK. You have to realize at this point in my life now I'm now 75 years old, so I had a long wonderful career. Since Skidmore, I went directly into psych mental health nursing and my first job was as a staff nurse on a psychiatric unit in Denver, Colorado. University of Colorado Medical Center. And there I was fortunate enough to find a supervisor, another, an advanced practice nurse in psychiatry who really took me on as a mentee. She became a mentor for me and we ended up doing a married couple’s group with one of the residents, we had resident psychiatrists there. So, it was a wonderful experience and I really enjoyed working on the in-patient unit; at that time nurses were doing groups. Patients were there longer term, certainly than they are now. Now we have very short-term admissions. And Patients could be there for a month or six weeks sometimes even longer. So, you really could develop a relationship with patients. At any rate, she encouraged me to go to graduate school so the year after, I did a year of clinical staff nursing, I went to graduate school at the University of Colorado and got a masters in psych mental health nursing. Do you want me to keep talking about this? SR [00:15:48]: Yeah. That’d be great. RZ [00:15:50]: OK. So, after that I was in Colorado and Colorado at that time in the 60s, late 60s, ‘69 I think was the date that the nurse practitioner was essentially born, and that role was born at the University of Colorado. So advanced practice nursing really took off in �Colorado. So, when I finished my Master’s degree I was wanting to work as a clinical nurse specialist which is what the degree was. So, I got one of the last jobs available in Denver for advanced practice psych nurses at the time. I put it off because I was in the process of getting married and I was over-done with school and over-done with everything. So, I let things go and the last job available was a research job at Denver General Hospital in psychiatry. And so, I took that job thinking, boy I'm not really a researcher at all, but I will take it because it was in a community mental health center. And in that community mental health center, I was also responsible for seeing a case load of patients and doing consultation in the General Hospital as well and helping some research projects that were all already in process. RZ [00:17:34]: And that job really changed my life in many ways. One research project was on the loss of a newborn -- the grief in a mother and incidence of depression who loses a baby during labor and delivery. So, I was doing that at the same time Denver and Colorado was doing therapeutic abortions. The therapeutic abortion law had been expanded somewhat and so we were doing abortions on women. But the requirement was they would have to have two psychiatrists determine that carrying the child to term would damage their mental health. So, I became involved in that program as well and seeing many of those women and counseling them and working with them. So, the job was incredibly variable and stressful. While I was doing the research, I was also doing clinical work and consultation with the nursing staff. They were having a hard time with all of it. So, at the same time there were a group of us working as clinical specialists at Denver General in various capacities as several different community-based teams. And we kept saying, you know, ‘we're not being paid the same way that people with the same educational background are being paid and our job description really doesn't say what we're doing.’ Because again, we were a new role and it was a new role in health care. So, we got together and we worked with the Colorado Nursing Association and we ended up forming a unit, a bargaining unit, and ended up protesting, not only our pay, but our job description. Over time we ended up filing a lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court as a discrimination suit. So, and the end result was that it got thrown out. But that was a very exciting and educational experience in the need for political change and political activism when you’re in healthcare. So, at the same time we were also saying that we felt we could be in private practice seeing patients if we had a supervisor that was willing to do that, because we were already functioning pretty independently doing that in the mental health clinic. So, a group of us in psychiatry, pediatric nurse practitioners, and a geriatric nurse practitioner, decided to form one of the first private independent nurse-run practices in the country. And so, we did that and it functioned really well for three or four years and then the pediatric and the geriatric nurses felt that they were nervous about doing this full time and decided that they really couldn't keep doing it anymore. It turned out that we became a group of psych nurses and we ended up adding some social workers as well. We actually incorporated, had a little corporation, and it functioned for several years as a private practice psychotherapy group. That was really a very innovative unusual thing for nurses to be doing at that point in time and now nurses are in private practice and setting up private practice groups and what have you. It's not uncommon at all. RZ [00:21:40]: So, then I moved to New York because my husband at the time wanted to live in �New York, and I had some trouble finding a job. I finally found a job at Lehman College doing the clinical teaching for psych mental health nursing. I did that for a couple of years and then found a job at St. Vincent's Hospital in their alcoholism program. RZ [00:22:16]: And I had done consultation in Colorado in the general hospital and at the time I really, really enjoyed that role. As a mental health consultant you see patients who are having difficulty with breathing or with pain or family issues or the nurse is having difficulty with the patient whose behavior it is making them crazy. It was a very wonderful role. As a result of that, I’m going to divert a little bit because another thing that I became very involved in happened with one of those patients. She was my psychtherapy patient in the clinic at Denver General and I had worked with her for a couple of years; and she was a very difficult patient. She spent a lot of time in the emergency room with traumatic symptoms and she was very histrionic; the staff was always complaining about her. And one day I got a call from the ICU saying that she was there and that she'd been badly burned in a house fire. I went to see her; she was in a lot of pain and very distraught, not knowing what to do. And I remembered back to my OB experience as a nursing student at Skidmore and how I had learned some relaxation techniques being used in natural childbirth by a man named Grant Lee, Dick Reed, I think his name was, to provide relaxation during labor and delivery. So, I decided to try that with her and I did have a relationship with her that had started previously and she went to sleep. I was really surprised. And so, I started doing that with her regularly and my supervisor at the time, again I'm back in Denver, said 'you're doing hypnosis'. And I said, 'I'm not doing hypnosis that really kind of freaks me out!' So, it turns out I decided to learn more about hypnosis, and a social worker on the unit had always been interested in hypnosis herself. And so, we set up a program of doing hypnosis with burn patients and patients who had chronic pain or were having difficulty with other kinds of difficulties on the hospital unit. Later after I moved to New York, I had written and published a couple of papers on clinical hypnosis for nurses and done some teaching of hypnosis in workshops to nurses. When I went to New York and was working, I got a call from a publishing company asking if I would like to write a book on hypnosis for nurses. So, I ended up writing two books, one on relaxation and imagery and one on clinical hypnosis for nurses. RZ [00:26:04]: So, that was while I was in New York. And also, I was working in the alcoholism program at this point and learning a lot about alcoholism and treating alcoholic patients and their families and particularly the addicted alcoholic patients who had a mental illness. So, we developed a whole program that worked with what's called the 'dual diagnosed patient'. This was again in the 70s, let’s see, late 70s and early 80s. And at the same time was the AIDS outbreak and St. Vincent’s is in the heart of Greenwich Village where there are a lot of gay men and the AIDS epidemic was rampant. So, I treated many people who were substance abusing, depressed, sometimes psychotic who also were HIV positive or had frank AIDS. In the meantime, also, throughout my career I've been an active ANA (American Nurses Association) member particularly in specialty psych nursing groups. So, it's been, it's been very important in my career as a support group and a group to help nurture myself as well as participate with others who are like-minded. RZ [00:27:50]: So, then I moved to Massachusetts I again had trouble getting a job [laughing], �and finally, I got a job. I did a variety of things: helped set up, actually did set up a dual diagnosis program and a program for chronically mentally ill patients and set up a consultation program for substance abuse at one of the major hospitals here. I set up a private practice and then helped form a group of psych nurses who were again advanced practice psych nurses and we lobbied along with other nurses for prescriptive authority. So, in the early 90s we managed to politically convince the legislators that we need an expanded Nurse Practice Act and should be allowed to prescribe psychotropic medications. So, I spent some time teaching at the University of Massachusetts, again psych nursing, mostly clinical teaching, although I've done quite a bit of classroom teaching. Then I also became involved in the American Holistic Nursing Association. That fit with my interest in hypnosis and imagery, which I practiced a fair amount in my private psychotherapy practice. I became actively engaged in the American Holistic Nursing Association. Then I decided since my kids were grown and gone and I decided I really would love to go back to school and get a doctorate. So, I did. And I went to NYU. So, I went back to New York and commuted from Massachusetts, Western Massachusetts to New York City twice a week and I finished my doctorate in nursing and my dissertation was on intentionality and healing which I’m continuing to study, teach and publish about. I continued to have a private practice in Amherst, Massachusetts, where I did psychotherapy and prescribing. I saw a lot of students as there are five colleges around Amherst. I also saw a variety of other kinds of patients. And I finally retired ten years ago, but I’ve continued to do research on intentionality and healing and to teach in workshop classes and present at national and international conferences. I was an adjunct faculty at UMass for quite a while up until just recently. And became the chairperson of the newly developing research committee at AHNA and later helped to develop that. And since that time, again I've just been working on papers and presentations mostly related to the concept of healing and intentionality. SR [00:31:40]: Oh wow, yea, that was great. RZ [00:31:47]: My whole life history. SR [00:31:51]: Yea, no, that was great. I have to type up an entire transcript, but I’m not... RZ [00:31:59]: Oh God. [laughing] SB [00:31:59]: ...But I'm not complaining. I'm a pretty fast typer I think. RZ [00:32:05]: OK that's good. SB [00:32:06] OK, so the last couple questions they’re just about the closing of the Skidmore program. So, the first question is, tell me about the closing of the program. So you said that you were pretty involved in that actually. RZ [00:32:23]: Well, in terms of the closing I was primarily involved in protesting it, and not wanting it to happen. I actually had a couple of students, when I was, where was I? I was in New York working at St.Vincent’s when this was happening. The nursing program �was still in New York and they built a new building which was really lovely. Before that we were staying in the NYU medical residence with the medical students. Skidmore built their own building which was a beautiful residence hall and probably overspent. Again, many of the students I think in the program, in the nursing program, were scholarship students. We were an extensive program because we were off campus and because several of the students were scholarship students. And so, it came down to dollars and cents, I'm sure. But those of us who had graduated really felt that Skidmore was losing something that really made it very special, and what more can I say about that? You know there were a lot of us that were protesting that and trying to stay involved. Let's see, Hunter-Gault, Charlene Hunter-Gault, who was a reporter for BBC, no for PBS NewsHour was on the board [I think she was on the board] and she supported our trying to keep the program alive. But the board of trustees finally voted to close it and I just think it was a big loss. The loss to those of us who were alums and for a while, nursing alums were very angry and disappointed. And I think a lot of people did not go back for reunions and didn't donate because they were mad. You know, and I think that's changed over the years. But it was an unhappy kind of thing for those of us who went through the program. When you’re in the program you don’t realize how unusual it is until you get out and you start comparing programs that other people went to what they learned and what their experiences were like. RZ [00:35:32]: I was very grateful when Terry Fulmer who was the dean at NYU for a very long time and a Skidmore graduate, really wanted something to happen for nursing and Skidmore. I think it was only a few years ago she set this program up, an easy transition from Skidmore to the NYU nursing program. I don't know what else to say about that. SB [00:35:57]: No, that’s great. So, the last question is when and how did you first hear about the closure? RZ [00:36:05]: Boy, that's a good question. I honestly don't know. I think, I think it may have been from the student I was mentoring who was in the second to last class. I think she might have told me and boy the year... I don't know. I was still in New York so it had to be ’85… ’84. I don't know, I’d have to look it up, when they actually started thinking about closing. SB [00:36:52]: Right. I think, I think it closed in '85, I thought. RZ [00:37:00]: Yeah. That sounds about right. SB [00:37:04]: But, I think they let the, you know the students who were still like undergraduates, they let them still complete the program. [RZ: Right. Right.] They didn't just throw them out. So, that's all I've got for you. Yeah, thanks so much for talking. RZ [00:37:23]: No none of the questions that you sent me, which is fine. SB [00:37:27]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think I've got a lot here. So... �RZ [00:37:33]: [laughing] I think you do too. SB [00:37:34]: So, I don’t think we need to go into those questions and also there was a lot of, there was a lot of stuff, you know a lot of different stuff from those questions that were kind of in your answers. [RZ: Yes] And yeah, thank you so much for talking to me. RZ [00:37:50]: Oh, you’re welcome and I really wish you luck and you know if I can be any help to you if you decide you want to do nursing, I’m happy to do that. SB [00:37:59]: Ok, thank you so much. RZ [00:38:00]: Oh, you’re welcome. And I wish you all the best in terms of graduating, that’s very cool. SB [00:38:09]: Thank you so much. [RZ: Alrighty] Alright, it was good talking to you. RZ [00:38:12]: Ok. SB [00:38:15]: Bye. RZ [00:38:17]: Thank you very much. Bye, bye. SB [00:38:20]: Bye. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Stephen Ribe '19 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rothlyn Zahourek '65 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 38:20 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rothlyn Zahourek, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rothlyn Zahourek '65 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 6, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/0f713a5595e3524fa980ab7971c9a0b7.JPG f1da443df9f135e0065455d540c69ce8 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/1b86ec93708b28aa97b72d8384197b76.m4a d0c29a0ded43e3af1f458194782c69d1 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/9587c7a61a206eb2a2518905ccab5da5.pdf 1dfd677e652c09c424c59378704f0be6 PDF Text Text Interview with Teresa Waters '79 by Grace Heath '19: COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, June 1, 2019. GRACE HEATH [00:00:00]: Okay. But basically, we can just jump right in and you can tell me your name, class year, and where you're from before Skidmore. TERESA WATERS [00:00:08]: Okay. My name now is Terry, Teresa Waters. When I was here at Skidmore, was Teresa Sinclair. I go by Terry and I was in the class of ’79. GH [00:00:19]: Nice, so where were you from before you came to Skidmore? TW [00:00:24]: When I was here at school, my parents were in Guilford, Connecticut. GH [00:00:27]: Okay. TW [00:00:27]: But I live in Maine now. GH [00:00:28]: All right. GH [00:00:29]: So, what originally brought you to Skidmore? What, how did you become attracted to this program? TW [00:00:36]: Well, I knew I always wanted to be a nurse since I was a little girl, and I had looked at actually three colleges: Russell, Sage, Duke and Skidmore. And liked Duke, but it was too far away, and I knew I wouldn't get home too often; I didn't really like Russell Sage being in the city, and when I came to see Skidmore, I loved it, the size and the campus was beautiful. GH [00:01:01]: Yeah. TW [00:01:02]: Yeah. GH [00:01:03]: So, did, does anyone in your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? TW [00:01:08]: No. GH [00:01:09]: So, this was just something you decided you wanted to do? TW [00:01:11]: Yeah. GH [00:01:12]: I see, so what was, what was it like being in the program? Like what? What was your day to day schedule like, kind of situation? TW [00:01:22]: The way the nursing department was set up, freshman and senior year were here in Saratoga and then sophomore and junior year were in New York, so totally opposite daily living. GH [00:01:35]: Yeah. TW [00:01:35]: Freshman year was pretty tough. It was a lot of science, chemistry, which I was not real good in, but I passed, but so, a lot of studying. �GH [00:01:46]: Yeah. TW [00:01:46]: We had a lot of fun. That group of nurses pretty much melded pretty quickly because we were all in the same classes, the same labs, that kind of thing. Sophomore and junior year, we were divided into two semesters. So, I don't, I can't remember if we started clinical right away our sophomore year, I'm pretty sure we did. Mostly at NYU, which was right down the street from the dorm. Dorm was on East 38th Street. I think there were three floors in the dorm and we had to cook and clean. And that was, yeah, that was pretty crazy. But it was great. GH [00:02:24]: Yeah. TW [00:02:24]: It was great. And then we also had to go to school during the summer after sophomore year and after junior year. Then senior year came back here, which was really fun. GH [00:02:34]: Yeah. TW [00:02:34]: Loved it. GH [00:02:35]: Yeah, so kind of starting with your experience the first year at Skidmore, what kind of classes were you taking? Like, was it mainly for nursing, particularly, or was it a variety of things? TW [00:02:48]: No, it was pretty much for nursing, other than they had what was called a winter term, which was an elect, you could take any kind of course. But English, biology, chemistry, chemistry lab, micro, sociology, I think psychology, and then so, there were labs for microbiology, chemistry and biology, and then spring semester was organic chemistry. The lab for that, and then a continuation of biology. GH [00:03:31]: So, when you were at Skidmore, how many people were in your nursing program? And were you guys all housed together, even on campus here? TW [00:03:39]: No, everybody was pretty much separated. GH [00:03:43]: Okay. TW [00:03:43]: Yeah, so some, there was still the old campus then, it was called Moore Hall. I lived in the Tower. People were in different dorms. Everybody was in a dorm freshman year. What was the second part of your question? GH [00:03:58]: That it was just how many people were in your program? TW [00:04:00]: Yeah, I think we started out with maybe 50. It was pretty small. Yeah. Yeah. But like you said, because we took all the same classes together, we got to know each other really well. Yeah. GH [00:04:12]: So then moving into New York City portion, what was that transition like going from small kind of Saratoga to thrown into this big city experience? TW [00:04:24]: It was, it was a real eye opener. You know, some kids hadn't really been exposed to �New York much. I had, living in Connecticut, but never had lived there. The dorm was in a pretty, it was not a bad section of Manhattan. It was a couple blocks from the U.N. in, and right across the street was a big parking garage. So, it wasn't a bad neighborhood, but you learn pretty quickly where you could go and where you couldn't go. We had basic safety classes at first, you know, telling you what to do. And just at that time, New York City was not like it is today. Like Grand Central, Times Square, you just didn't go there. It was pretty bad. But you learned where you could go. And we used the NYU library a lot, which was just a couple blocks down on 1st Avenue. Yeah. It was a big transition, for sure. GH [00:05:22]: Yeah. So, what were the what was, like, the class schedule? Kind of like, like was it more classes or a lot of clinical work? TW [00:05:30]: You know, I was trying to think of that driving up here yesterday. I'm pretty sure the way we did it was like two days of classes, all classes which were in the dorm. The classrooms were downstairs on the first floor. And then I think the other days, we had clinical, and each class, there were obviously two classes down there, sophomore and junior. Each class was divided in half. So, you spent all your time with the half that you were in. GH [00:05:59]: Yeah. TW [00:06:00]: Yeah. GH [00:06:01]: So, what was that atmosphere kind of like then being with that one group then in this? TW [00:06:07]: Pretty cohesive. GH [00:06:08]: Yeah. TW [00:06:10]: We had a lot of, you know, a couple of pranksters for sure, and had a really good time. But it was a lot, it was a lot of studying. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. GH [00:06:20]: So, what were, what were the clinicals like? Like being, you know, you're probably, what, like 20 or so being in this professional war environment? TW [00:06:29]: It was, it was a real eye opener at first. NYU didn't have just run of the mill, like, for instance, pediatrics, it wasn't tonsillectomy and appendectomies, it was major things that were wrong with kids. So, it was a real eye opener to see some life and death type things and the way it worked, usually, at least sophomore year, you were assigned just one or two patients and you had to go the night before, look at their chart, read the chart, find out all their medications, and then you'd go home and study and find out, you know, what are the adverse reactions. All those sorts of things. So, there were usually, I think, seven or eight nursing students to one professor. Yeah. GH [00:07:20]: Yeah. TW [00:07:20]: Yeah. GH [00:07:21]: So, did you have what were your relationships like with your professors then? TW [00:07:26]: They were great. Always accessible if you needed them. Very professional, and �really helped you learn to set limits right away—what was acceptable, what wasn't. But very, very positive. Yeah. GH [00:07:45]: Um, so, I guess, just in general, like, what are your some of your just most memorable times in New York City? And just like any stories you have that you can remember, either clinical or even outside of your, the direct, the nursing work, you know. TW [00:08:01]: Like I said, you know, you really bonded with the people, especially that were on the floor that you lived with. Yeah, lots of fun in the summertime and in the in the early spring, we would go up to the roof of the building, which was called Tar Beach. And when I think of it now, I just kind of shake my head. But we had some great times on there, you know, just crazy. Crazy. Yeah, but I had to get tan, you know? GH [00:08:28]: Of course. No sunscreen, I imagine. TW [00:08:31]: Oh, no. Baby oil and iodine. GH [00:08:33]: Oh, my gosh. TW [00:08:34]: I know, I know. GH [00:08:35]: Oh, God. TW [00:08:36]: The other thing summers in the city were... I did not like that, just so hot, but you did it and you got through it. GH [00:08:43]: Yeah. TW [00:08:44]: Yeah. GH [00:08:45]: So, were you, for, based on, like, grade wise, like, did you have like written exams when you were doing, in New York City doing the clinical work and stuff? Okay. TW [00:08:55]: Just typical. Yeah, there were exams and all. If I remember right, a lot of quizzes and then yeah, I think we had exams, probably and I don't know, maybe every month or something. But yeah, it was pretty, pretty tough. GH [00:09:15]: Yeah. TW [00:09:15]: Yeah. GH [00:09:16]: And then. So, you're saying the classrooms were in the same building as your, where you lived. So, what was the housing situation like? Like how was that set up? TW [00:09:28]: It the, the building had, I think, four floors. The first floor were two or three classrooms that were divided with, you know, those accordions. GH [00:09:38]: Yeah. TW [00:09:38]: Yeah. Then the second floor was offices and there was a housemother who we �never saw, but we were told she had an apartment there. The door, the front door was always locked. You had to, I think you were buzzed in, if I remember right. But then the third and fourth floors were where we lived. So, there were, there were some singles in the back, but they were real small. Most people had doubles. There was one small living room with a kitchen, which I think about now and cringe; it was always filthy. Yeah, and then there was one common bathroom that had I think four showers—four or six showers. I know. For all these, yeah, and we had, we had one male in our class. Yeah. It was, I think the only, I don't know if there were males after that, but yeah, he was a great guy. Yeah, I can't remember his name, but he was, yeah. GH [00:10:38]: That must have been a pretty crazy experience living with that huge group of women. TW [00:10:43]: He wasn't on the high floor, but, yeah, I can only imagine. Yeah, but we had a, it was fun. It was a lot of fun. GH [00:10:50]: Yeah. So, then what was that, going, what was it like then going back to Skidmore after having this pretty independent, more serious experience in the city? TW [00:11:02]: Yeah, it was again, it was a pretty big transition. You know I think we all really grew up a lot in the city because we were independent and just seen these, some life and death kind of situations. I had a really good time senior year. I loved it. Yeah, too. And senior year we took a nursing theory course and nursing leadership. But other than that, you could take what you wanted. So, I took things that just, you know, American history just, it was great. Yeah. But it was definitely, it was different, you know, and we, we had all bonded so much, but we got back here and it was just like nothing. Most of us lived in, it wasn't Sussman, is it Sussman Village now? GH [00:11:48]: Yes. TW [00:11:49]: It was called Scribner Village. GH [00:11:51]: Oh, yes. TW [00:11:51]: Yeah, and most of us were in apartments down there. GH [00:11:54]: Yeah. TW [00:11:54]: Yeah. GH [00:11:55]: Nice, that's where I lived this past year. TW [00:11:57]: You did? GH [00:11:57]: Yeah. TW [00:11:58]: They look beautiful. GH [00:11:59]: They're so nice now. TW [00:12:01]: Are they really? �GH [00:12:01]: Yeah, way nicer than anything I'd probably actually be able to afford, but… TW [00:12:05]: Wow. GH [00:12:06]: Yeah, super nice, but, yeah, so how, or what area of nursing were you particularly interested in? Like pediatrics, like psychiatric. What kind of? TW [00:12:21]: When I got out of school? GH [00:12:22]: I guess in school, and then when you got out of school. TW [00:12:28]: I was interested in ER Nursing. GH [00:12:31]: Okay. TW [00:12:31]: Mostly. We really didn't have any exposure to that in school. Most of it was med surg and pediatrics and OB, but that was always an interest of mine. So, when I got out of school, I took a little bit of a different track than most people did. I went up to Maine. A lot of kids were going to grad school or, you know, to big university hospitals. I wanted to go up to Maine. I've spent summers there. GH [00:12:54]: Yeah. TW [00:12:55]: So, I went to a small little 32 bed hospital. GH [00:12:57]: Wow. TW [00:12:58]: Where you did things in Boothbay Harbor. Where you did pretty much everything. GH [00:13:03]: Yeah. TW [00:13:04]: Yeah. GH [00:13:04]: What did you, what was that experience like? Did you like it like? TW [00:13:09]: I loved it. It was again an adjustment at first. And I'll never forget, you know, small hospital, the head nurse who was a woman who was about my age now, I thought she was pretty old, but she took me aside and she said, 'you know, listen, I know you went to a four year school, don't think you, you know everything because you don't.' She said, 'the best advice I can give you is listen to what the nurse's aides tell you.'. GH [00:13:36]: Yeah. TW [00:13:37]: 'And don't, you know, come across as better than that.' And I'm like, 'why are you saying that to me?' And she said 'because we had a really bad experience with somebody who went to a four-year school and came in and…' And later I talked to her about that once I got to know her, and she said ‘no,’ she said, 'you know, the nurse's aides are your, your eyes and ears cause you can't be everywhere.' Because at night there would be two nurses aids and an NR and would be in charge for 30, 32 patients. GH [00:14:05]: Yeah. �TW [00:14:05]: So, it was, at first, I was shaking in my boots, but it turned out great. It was great. Yeah. GH [00:14:12]: So how do you think, how do you think Skidmore's program kind of prepared you for that experience, even though, I'm sure it is, like you're saying it was different than what other people were doing it. TW [00:14:24]: You had a lot of, a lot of critical thinking. You know, like I said, we didn't in, in the nursing program we didn't have your typical appendectomies, tonsillectomy. It was kids with brain tumors, glioblastomas, all kinds of pretty serious things. But you knew how to prioritize. So at first, I think I was at a little bit of a disadvantage when I went to St Andrew's in Boothbay, my first job, but after you got to know just the basics which, which took, you know, a month or so. GH [00:14:55]: Yeah. TW [00:14:56]: The routine type thing, way ahead of the curve. Yeah. Yeah. GH [00:15:01]: So, then what was your, what was your next step after you were at that hospital? How long were you working at that hospital? TW [00:15:08]: I was at St Andrew's a total of three years. GH [00:15:11]: Okay. TW [00:15:12]: With a break in between, because my mom passed away in Connecticut. So, I went back to Connecticut because I had a younger sister. I was there for about eight months. But then I did go back to St Andrew's in Boothbay, so a total of three years there. And then I went to New Hampshire, to Weaks hospital in Lancaster. GH [00:15:30]: Okay. TW [00:15:31]: And did, it was called in-service education, which was in charge of nursing education, some administration, and then I moved up to the, they called it nursing service coordinator, which was in charge of the nursing department. So, it was administrative. GH [00:15:51]: Yeah. TW [00:15:52]: And I didn't, I wasn't crazy about that. I was there for a total of four years and I said, ‘eh.’ Yeah, I learned a lot in administration, but I'm more of a hands-on. Yeah. GH [00:16:03]: So, then did you do hands-on after that? TW [00:16:06]: From there I moved to Portland, Maine, and I did. I worked in a high-risk OB office. GH [00:16:13]: Oh, okay. TW [00:16:13]: Yeah. And at that point in time, I got involved with flight nursing when the doctor was gone because he would go away for a month at a time to different seminars and things. GH [00:16:25]: Yeah. �TW [00:16:26]: So, I did high-risk flight nursing, transporting women from northern Maine down either to Boston or Portland. GH [00:16:33]: Oh, okay. TW [00:16:33]: Yeah. GH [00:16:34]: Wow. That's really interesting. TW [00:16:35]: It was, it was really neat. I love doing it. Yeah. GH [00:16:38]: Was that like, how is like is a very stressful like. Yeah, just what was that like? TW [00:16:46]: It is pretty stressful because in northern Maine, a lot of these women would be in early labor or pre-term labor, but there were no facilities in northern Maine to handle a premature baby. So, the idea was to ship them down to either Portland or Boston. So, the moms were really nervous and, you know, trying to get them calmed down and just say, 'hey, you know, we'll get you there as soon as we can. What's the worst that can happen?' You don't want to go through… Look, if you, if you have to start pushing and the baby's born, this is what we're going to do.' Never happened. Pretty close, but didn't happen. GH [00:17:23]: Wow. Yeah. That's so cool. TW [00:17:25]: Yeah. Yeah. GH [00:17:26]: So how long did you do that then? TW [00:17:28]: I did that. That was a per diem job, you know, kind of augmenting my regular job. I did that for about four years. Yeah. And I learned a lot. It was, it was great. It really was. GH [00:17:40]: Yeah. How long were you. So, did you move after that or…? TW [00:17:44]: So, I stayed in Portland and then from there I switched jobs from the OB office to Southern Maine Medical Center, where I was responsible for social workers and discharge planners. Did that for about seven years, and then, sounds like I was a nurse forever. Yeah. From there, I, my, I got married, and my husband was, is a pilot, and he was up in the Rockland, Maine area. So, I got a job with MBNA, which was a credit card company. This was totally out of the, my area doing occupational health nursing. Which was great. GH [00:18:25]: Yeah. TW [00:18:26]: Yeah, I did that for eight years until MBNA was bought by Bank of America and they let all the nurses go. They what we did, we managed workers comp and short-term disability and then did a lot of ergonomic assessments, things like that. And now I'm in a urology office. GH [00:18:46]: Yeah. It's funny how the times change. TW [00:18:47]: Yes they do. GH [00:18:48]: You never know where you're gonna end up, I guess. TW [00:18:50]: It's true. It's true. �GH [00:18:51]: Okay, going back to Skidmore, one thing we've been asking all the nurses that my classmates and I have been very interested in is, what was your reaction, I guess, to hearing about the closing of the program? TW [00:19:07]: I was, I couldn't believe it. Because I kind of lost touch with it, most people, you know, a couple friends I kept in touch with. But I think I got a letter that the nursing department was closing. I was just like, 'Oh, my gosh, that's so sad.' Yeah, so sad. GH [00:19:28]: Yeah. TW [00:19:30]: Yeah. It just seems so sudden to me. GH [00:19:33]: What like, I know some people like wrote letters and stuff, like were, I guess like how did you react to it. Like what was it besides like the saddening? Like were, did you feel like you had to do something or more was it like it happened? And... TW [00:19:51]: Well, I reached out to a woman, who I found out after the fact, Lorraine Amorosi, who graduated in a year ahead of us, but she was in the same clinical group as we were. Apparently, she had been in touch with administration at the college, so she knew more than I knew. GH [00:20:08]: Yeah. TW [00:20:09]: And I said, ‘Was there anything we can do?’ And she said 'It's pretty much a done deal. It's done.' Yeah. Which was sad. GH [00:20:17]: Yeah. TW [00:20:18]: Yeah. I mean I understand the financial part of it which it was my understanding that was the reason, just the cost of keeping the dorm and that sort of thing. GH [00:20:26]: Yeah. TW [00:20:27]: But it was unfortunate because Skidmore Nursing had a really good reputation and... GH [00:20:31]: Yeah, definitely. TW [00:20:32]: Yeah. GH [00:20:34]: And I guess just one last question… Just looking back on your experience, like how do you, how do you look back on it now? Like how do you think about your time at Skidmore? TW [00:20:47]: Oh, with real fond memories. You know, just driving up here yesterday, it's like, wow, 40 years. You can't believe it. You know it, my regret is, oh, you wish you could keep in touch with everybody, but life gets busy and, you know, people move on. GH [00:21:03]: Yeah. TW [00:21:04]: But I was back for the 30th Reunion, and it's like you reconnect where you left off. But I have great memories. Just, yeah, the best, I think, you know, all the professors were wonderful and it was, it was good. It was a really good time. �GH [00:21:19]: Yeah. TW [00:21:20]: Yeah. GH [00:21:21]: Awesome. Well, I think I can stop recording now. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Grace Heath '19 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Teresa Waters '79 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 21:24 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Teresa Waters '79 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 6, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/279483278a6bd108443c93ab8d95757e.png 0b165f041b879387c8681b66057f75d8 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/fa8bca7876f84645bb0fd6d27ee3bc79.m4a b5b1c1a23a07d4f87f9331fe9e73aee2 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Grace Heath Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mary Stevenson Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mary Stevenson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 1st, 2019 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/ee1107fa101205b73150e0d570dee24c.jpg 7ca0a37ef9b10098868f374df6609baf https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/7cf967780f8369623dfae71cade4406e.jpg 6ef9eafe495027de2fa971f42d1fd6e5 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/6bb14c9b60e1c38e48327974de4b65ae.m4a 21f13d148da2cd96052d09c44715621a https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/be9368872857143025e99629ce68b453.pdf 6e8cd5e71b9c35fa96756683d5e79299 PDF Text Text Interview with Nora Steele '69 by Grace Heath '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. GRACE HEATH [00:00:00]: So if you could just start by stating your name and your class year. NORA STEELE [00:00:03]: I'm Nora Steele. I'm Nursing class of '69. GH [00:00:08]: So, what drew you to Skidmore in particular? NS [00:00:12]: Well, I always wanted to be a nurse from the time I was like four or five years old. But when it came time to pick a college, I wasn't picking a college, I wanted to go to a nursing school. And my father made it very clear that I had to go to a baccalaureate program. I couldn't go to our local diploma program. And this was, this was even in advance of some of the national publicity. But, and Skidmore had one of the best reputations. It was like one of the top ten Nursing programs in the country. And I came to visit Skidmore and I fell in love and I said, 'okay, this is where I want to go.' And my guidance counselor in high school said, 'Well, you have to apply to another school. You can't just apply into Skidmore College.' And I said, 'That's the only place I'm going to go.' And so, of course, the rejection letter from the other school came first, and I took it back to him and he said, 'No, no, no, no, no, no, no.' It was a clerical error from the other school. But a week later, I got my acceptance from Skidmore, and that was, in like Flynn. And Skidmore was a kind of a perfect, a really good place for me. I made some really good friends here. The Nursing students were spread out across the whole old campus. Some of us were in dorm rooms; some of us were in the old houses. And we kind of got to know each other and then went to New York City. GH [00:01:54]: So backtracking a bit, what was it that made you interested in nursing? Was anyone in your family involved in medicine or? NS [00:02:04]: My mother wanted to be a nurse, but her father wouldn't let her because it wasn't something that a debutante did. That was not, but when it came time during the war, she was a, the housemother for the nurses. And so, she had kind of a nursing interest. GH [00:02:23]: Yeah. NS [00:02:24]: So it was just, I wanted to be a nurse. GH [00:02:30]: So, what was the structure of the program like when you got to Skidmore? NS [00:02:34]: At the time, it was a, it's like a two, it's almost a two plus two. We spent the first year on the main campus, the first summer in New York with some really basic, and at the time, we lived in the medical student dorm. And then the second year we were in Fahnestock Hall. So, they found a dorm for us that was just nursing. And we had both our classes and our dorm rooms were all in the same building. Then we had the second summer off, so the summer right in the middle. And that was what, the time it was set up so in New York State, you could get licensed as an LPN, which meant some of us could work starting then and get a hands-on nursing experience a lot more than we can get just school year. So, some of our learning got to be much more meaningful. I did the LPN and I went to work at the hospital where I was going to go to their diploma program. But I went back and I, I worked as an LPN for the summer and then our third semester was in New York City, was full nursing curriculum. And then our summer after, between our junior and senior year was �also in New York City. And then we came back to the main campus for the fourth year. Now, I did something not really smart. I spent my Christmas money working as an LPN, and a group of us went to Saint Thomas in the Virgin Islands. NS [00:04:22]: And I was hitchhiking with British sailors, and I was in an accident, and I broke my ankle. [00:04:31]: Oh, my gosh. [00:04:31]: So I was now six, six weeks, it was spring break. We had six weeks of clinical and then summer. And then I could come up here and I could do all the classes here on crutches, but I couldn't be a nurse in the city on crutches. So, the faculty were incredibly flexible with me and they let me sit in on all the theory classes and do all the theory exams. I just couldn't do the patient care and the same thing. And the summer program, we just picked something that didn't involve direct patient care at the summer time. So, I did some things that were related to direct patient care that I had previously given. And so, it was, but the faculty worked with me and my classmates to let me finish the program. So as soon as I was off crutches, which didn't happen until after they all graduated in October, I came back, went back to New York City for six weeks and I did my clinical so I finished everything in 1969, but they didn't let me walk across the stage until 1970. GH [00:05:53]: No. NS [00:05:55]: But that was, it was okay. I had, I got my nursing degree and they had been, I mean, they individualized what I needed. And we had an outstanding faculty. I didn't realize at the time, and I've kind of looked back. I am now, I've got a doctorate in nursing. And so, I've been looking at, okay, were the Skidmore faculty involved with the professional nurse’s organization? Were they publishing? Did they do this? Did they do? And I never had a sense of that as a student at all. All I know is they knew, they knew the topics they were teaching, and when I needed something individualized, they set it up. So, it worked for me. GH [00:06:48]: Yeah. So, going more to the New York City aspects of the program, seems to be a pretty big part of it. So, if you could just talk a little bit more about just your experience and going back after leaving, like you were saying and just what was that like being in New York City? NS [00:07:07]: Well, part of training as a nurse, you need to have experience in every type of nursing. And Saratoga Springs doesn't exactly give you the opportunity to have experience in every type of nursing. So, the faculty at Skidmore had the vision to work out an arrangement with New York University. So, we had clinicals with New York University and then we took advantage. The, now the faculty are New York City nurses and they know the kinds of things that are available. So, we worked with the VA Hospital for psych experience and we worked with the Visiting Nurses Association and the New York Public Health Nurses to do, or public health nurses, and then for our obstetric, they went to the hospital where they did most, most of the deliveries in the area. So, it was really, really worked out. We didn't do much with Bellevue, which is the big, because they had their own nursing program and they had an affiliation with Hunter where they were doing some things, so Skidmore didn't do anything with Bellevue. I did get to do some stuff with Bellevue because my patient from public health had to go to Bellevue. So, I had some indirect experience. But we did things in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood where we were kind of, where the dorm was and it was all New York University Hospital. �GH [00:08:50]: What was the, what was the living situation like in your city, being housed with all the other women in your program? Right? Is that how it was set up? NS [00:09:00]: Yeah. It, it was, it was fine. I didn't, we had some interesting, exciting experiences with our elevator operator and the bathing facilities weren't that exciting, but and it wasn't really clean. I know I had, in the medical student dorm, it was very much like the dorms here. It was not, and we had two people in one room and then one person in another. But then we went to Fahnestock Hall and that was generally one person per room or two people in one room and they have another, but that Fahnestock Hall also had a kitchen. So when we were in Fahnestock Hall, we didn't have any meal service, so we got to do our own meals, or we'd go out to eat. So, we all had, like, little bar stoves, and there was a, after my accident when I was on crutches, going up and down the stairs and cooking and going out to eat, it did create some interesting experiences, but my classmates made sure I ate a balanced meal once a day. And there was someone who cooked regularly in the kitchen and they said 'come down to eat with us.' And that worked out really, really well for me. GH [00:10:30]: Yeah. So then going back to Skidmore after having this more, this different experience in New York City, what was that transition like coming back? NS [00:10:44]: The, we had kind of anticipated, I was on the, the newspaper, the newspaper staff when I was a freshman. I got some, and then I did, I was the liaison when I was in the city. So, coming back, I knew I was going to work for the newspaper. So, I kind of just fit right back in there. And our dorm rooms, when we picked out who we wanted to be close to. GH [00:11:11]: Yeah. NS [00:11:12]: And the suite I was in, there was all nurses. But the classes were all mixed, and again, I was on crutches, so I was probably not as involved in some of the things as I might have been otherwise. GH [00:11:27]: Yeah. NS [00:11:27]: Oh, and we were at Kimball Hall. GH [00:11:30]: Oh, yeah. NS [00:11:32]: Yeah. GH [00:11:32]: What kind of classes, then, were you taking senior year? After your… NS [00:11:37]: We had to take a lot of our liberal arts. Our freshman year was pretty much the core, the English and psychology, biology, chemistry. So senior year we got to do the kind of things we wanted to do to flesh out our liberal arts background. So, I took art appreciation and 19th century art and two political science courses, and then we had our nursing seminar. And those are the only courses I remember. But, yeah. GH [00:12:20]: So, then what was your path like after Skidmore? What kind of, what did you do, I guess, after graduation? NS [00:12:30]: After graduation, I started working as an RN, and I went home to my house to where my parents were, and then I was engaged to be married after our graduation in June. So, I knew I arranged for a job where he was living in North Carolina, but I wanted to work �until I went down there. So, I finished school in October. I got my RN license. I went to Strong in Rochester and said, 'I'm an RN, I'll work for, for two or three months here if you'll, if you have a position for me.' So they hired me and paid me and I worked like 11 to 7, something really exciting. And then I went to North Carolina and I worked in the position that I wanted to, which was nursery. GH [00:13:21]: Oh, okay. NS [00:13:23]: And then I went to New Orleans. When I applied for a job there, I got, I was not as educated as or as picky as I should have been. But they said the only position they had, I wanted a job that was on the public transportation system from where we were living. And so, I got the job they offered me was med surg, head nurse. GH [00:13:50]: What was that? NS [00:13:51]: I was a brand-new graduate, you know, I'm trying to graduate with only experiences in LPN as the head nurse on a med surg unit when she's applying for OB Pedes, outpatient. Yeah, because that was where my love was. But I took the job, and I fulfilled the responsibilities with the help of the in-service education people and the chaplain, because I had some fun experiences there. GH [00:14:24]: Yeah. Oh. NS [00:14:26]: And six months later, the position I really wanted opened up. And Pris, who was one of my college roommates met the head nurse from the OB Peds clinic at a conference in Wisconsin, and they had a position as she was leaving. And so, she called me and said, 'you know, the position that you want is coming vacant,' and so I went to talk to the supervisor. GH [00:14:57]: Yeah. NS [00:14:57]: And she said, 'Yeah, I need you.' But that was because of Skidmore contacts, which it's a really small world. GH [00:15:08]: Very much so. NS [00:15:09]: It's a really small world. GH [00:15:10]: Yeah. So how long were you in that job for then? NS [00:15:18]: Four year, four years. I mean, I did the, the job, and then I got promoted to head nurse, and then I got promoted to supervisor. So, I stayed with that agency for about four years. And then I was offered a position at the university to teach, so I started my master's degree. GH [00:15:39]: Okay. NS [00:15:40]: And, and teaching. GH [00:15:43]: Nice, so I guess, one of the last questions I have is, what was your reaction to hearing about the closing of the program? NS [00:15:56]: Anger and frustration. It was like for why? It's one of the best programs in the �country. How come? It's not fair. They need to continue it. It didn't make any sense. GH [00:16:10]: Yeah. NS [00:16:14]: It was obviously something I didn't have any control over, and, and it happened. GH [00:16:20]: Yeah. So then just looking back at your time at Skidmore, how do you, I guess just how, how do you look back on that now, those experiences after all these years of, you know, being in this field? NS [00:16:39]: It's, it's incredible. I didn't realize when I was going through the program. What a solid foundation I was getting in both nursing and, and life. GH [00:16:56]: Yeah. NS [00:16:57]: Yeah, and it, it's some of the same things talked about in the award ceremony today. It's like when you look back and you go, 'wow,' you know. I think part of it has to do with the, the people who come to Skidmore have just a broad spectrum of experiences. When you look at the different countries people come from. I mean, in my dorm freshman year, I had somebody who had been a runner up from Ms. America and somebody else who had grown up primarily in India and in the Foreign Service. And you put those people kind of in the same environment and they find things in common. GH [00:17:50]: Yeah. NS [00:17:51]: And it provides you with a real solid base of working with people. GH [00:17:57]: Yeah. Well, I think I can stop the... � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Grace Heath '19 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nora Steele '69 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 18:02 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Nora Steele, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nora Steele '69 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/57d08e4ad6cb7545ba35b102bfb00734.jpg 132511ed2d207cc2661dc8fca6bce113 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/4ac22e1dc72aa54d332218874d5a56b3.mp4 14382406027d8f68e4a8495dc6adcabc https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/9e4fc6a346942127c16d3bffd5febb6e.pdf 1dc29cea790eb1479789ea644f4de798 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/b21e4254d348eadaee87971336d82f0c.pdf a80176cf039b0bd061cacc92885cbaa7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Samantha Murphy Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Joe Levy Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Saratoga Springs N.Y Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Samantha Murphy Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit Nov. 1, 2019 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Joseph Levy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 26, 2019 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Samantha Murphy, '23 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Joseph Levy Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource This is an interview with Joesph Levy, a photographer who moved to Saratoga in the 70's. He is known for is photography at the Saratoga Race Track, and also ran for state senate with the Green Party. Levy has made an impact on the arts community in Saratoga and is keeping the Green party alive for future generations. In this interview, you will learn about his life growing up, his life in Saratoga and his work in politics. Arts Photographer Green Party Hyde Collection Photographer Photography Saratoga Arts Saratoga Arts Workshop Saratoga County Saratoga County Green Party Saratoga County Politics Saratoga Race Course St Yaddow Track Photographer https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/e7dab351090afd4678110ac7287e69ad.png 990aabf62c6437ee549ffd5f2ae37fee https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/01100df398b2011ea8e43869e406baae.mp3 a5a1638e222e2326e0efba87ed8c63e7 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/741e4635f544d36741ea40d4b40558c2.pdf d53727555a1b57c903bd2591255e9ac0 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/caf3ce928db5a10ace0bf5ab9740b8bb.pdf bc3acdd8895bea076fef2cbacbd2ec7b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Isabel M.R. Long Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lauren Roberts Location The location of the interview Saratoga County History Office Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Isabel M.R. Long Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 07/12/2019 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Isabel Long: My name is Isabel Long. Today is October 28th, it is approximately 2:35pm. I am in the Saratoga County History Office. I am here with Lauren Roberts and we've here to talk for the Saratoga Memory Project. Lauren, could you introduce yourself, please? Lauren Roberts: Yeah. My name is Lauren Roberts, and I am the Saratoga County Historian, and I am also a Skidmore alum. IL: Wonderful, thank you. So, just to get things going, what's your earliest memory of Saratoga Springs? LR: Hmmm. Well I grew up about an hour away from Saratoga Springs, so when I was young, we used to come to Saratoga to go to the racetrack and to shop downtown. I was born in 1982, so my memories would be probably from the early 90s of coming, coming to Saratoga. But that's primarily why we would come over here. I grew up in a pretty rural town, so Saratoga would have been one of the closest malls to shop in. But also, my family always went to the race track in the summer time, so we would come for that. IL: Could you describe where you grew up? LR: Sure! I grew up in the village of Northville, actually, let me say, I grew up in the town of North Hampton because I'm actually outside the village. But for all intents and purposes we all it, Northville, which is in Fulton County. And, ah, small town. I grew up in a – I grew up on several acres of land that used to be an old farm, the Simpson farm, which probably started in the late 1700s, so. I lived in a modern house that was built on the farm, but there were a lot of remnants in the woods around that you could tell that it used to be farm land. We had apple trees from the old orchard in our yard and I had a neighbor who was about the same age as I was and we would go in the woods and find old milk pails, and barbed wire fences, and pieces of ceramic in the old stream bed. So, it was a good place for someone who had a budding interest in local history, and I'm pretty sure that's why I was interested in local history. But also, the story of the great Sacandaga Lake was of interest to me because Northville sits on the Great Sacandaga lake and the lake was a man-made lake. It was flooded in 1930. They put a dam in, the Continental Dam to be able to control the flow of the Hudson River downstream, and to prevent flooding. So there were a lot of hamlets that were flooded out in order to do this and I became interested in that because in the fall, when the water levels went down, you could find lots of different artifacts along the shores of the beach: places we would hang out or go swimming, things like that. (3:25) And I went to a very small school. The name of the school is Northville Central School. It was K through twelve in one building. I graduated with about 60 kids in my graduating class. So, but I had a great, what I thought was, you know, a great elementary school and high school experience. I had some really great teachers. I grew up in a really – You know a lot of people will look on small town life as pretty nostalgic, and it has its pros and cons, but I had a pretty good, I had, what I consider, a really good time growing up in a small, rural town. IL: (4:10) Thank you. So, could you elaborate on what you mean by pros and cons. LR: I would say, you know– When you choose to live in a small town you know there are sacrifices that you have to make. I live in a small town now, so I would say commuting, to work, but maybe when I was younger some of the pros and cons is no public transportation. We rode our bikes everywhere. I lived outside of the village so, it was a couple miles to ride to school. No cellphones then, so, you know, we could use the pay-phone to have your mom come and pick you up in the village. (4:47) And you know, maybe there would be less programing offered in the school. Rather than having to play one sport, were people where cut for the team, you really needed all of your friends to go out for the team so you had enough people just to field a full team. I can remember, you know, kind of recruiting people for our sports teams so that we had enough people to fill the roaster. And, you know, I did everything I could. I was in the chorus, and I was in the band, and I was in drama, and I played all the sports. So, you really needed a lot of participation. (5:27) Most of the kids I went to school with I knew from the time I was probably pre-school age. And we grew up, you know, we were like a family. I don't want to make it sound perfect, you know, but that's – you know, it was pretty great, and we spent a lot of time outdoors, you know. We were in the southern Adirondacks there so, you know we lived on a lake. We did a lot of swimming. A lot of my friends – we had boats, beaches, a lot of four-wheelers, snowmobiles. We spent a lot of time hiking. We had trails- miles and miles of trails behind our houses that, you know, even before we were sixteen and had our licensees, we had different kinds of off-road vehicles. But we spent a lot of time outside. And like, you know we didn't have – yeah, we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have a lot of electronics, but I don't even think – I don't think I had cable until I was maybe a junior or senior in high school. We just had, like, the local channels. But it didn't matter, I was busy enough. I didn't have time for that anyway. And, you know, you can still see the way small towns pull together when you have, let's say, like a family has a tragedy like a house fire or someone passes away unexpectedly, and they don't have enough money for the funeral. You know, spaghetti dinners, and basket raffles, and all that kind of stuff the community seems to pull together for, so. Some of those things that I'd say are maybe cliché about small towns were really true about Northville. IL: Thank you. Could you help me understand how your trips to Saratoga fit into that for you. (7:15) LR: So we were about– in Northville, were about 45 minutes to an hour away from either Glens Falls or Saratoga. So doctor’s appointments, like I said like malls, things like that, those were kind of nearby. We played sports – we actually played Spa Catholic because we were a small school and they were a small school, so we would come over here. We played against them in softball, sometimes soccer I think too. So, you know, they weren't like major trips, they would just be – I think when you live in a rural area an hour trip is par for the course. You need to get, to get anywhere that has what you need, it's about an hour. IL: So, em, thank you. Help me understand the role the races played in your life at that point. (8:11) LR: Oh, it was just an entertainment kind of thing. My father's family came from Corinth, which was nearby, and my grandfather and some of his brothers used to really like horses. So, my father would go to the races, and we would go too. We were always backyard people, which is where you bring your own picnic and you sit on the picnic tables. You know, we weren't sitting in the club house but we were walking up to the fence in the paddock watching the horses be saddled before the races, that kind of thing. So, it was just sort of something we enjoyed. IL: Wonderful. So, thinking about, kind of, the next step for you. So, you – coming to Skidmore. Were you the first person in your family to go to college? Or – LR: Nope, both my parents went to college. My dad was actually an RPI engineer. And actually, I didn’t start out at Skidmore. When I was a senior in college [high school], I had planned to apply to several small liberal arts schools. I knew that's where I wanted to go. I applied to St. Lawrence University and they got back to me first because I applied early admit, and they offered me one of their presidential scholarships. And if I accepted their scholarship, I need to agree that I would not apply to any other schools. So, I decided to accept their scholarship, so I didn't apply, I didn't finish my application to Skidmore. So, I ended up, Freshman year I went to St. Lawrence, and it just wasn't a fit for me. There wasn't any one thing in particular except that – I should say I went with the intention of studying anthropology. That was what I wanted to major in. And I liked anthropology, but during that year I was kind of looking around at other programs and I heard about American Studies, which they didn't have at St. Lawrence, and Skidmore did have. And it was a– I thought it was a really intriguing program, and some of the other things, ah, St. Lawrence had a really big sports program, and I didn't play sports, so it wasn't something that was beneficial to me. The other thing I am really interested in is musical theater. I've been involved in musical theater my whole life. We have a – Sacandaga Musical Theater which is our home town musical theater company that I've been kind of a director for a long time, so St. Lawrence didn't really have that and Skidmore did have Cabaret Troupe which was a student run organization, which I really liked. Because I knew I wasn't going to have a career in musical theater, but I still wanted to be involved in it. So, I decided to apply to transfer to Skidmore, and I was accepted. So, I finished the year out at St. Lawrence, and then I started my sophomore year at Skidmore. Started out living in Moore [Hall], which is the old dorm that was downtown. And, my first week at Skidmore was when 9/11 happened. (11:33). So, I can still remember I was in Spanish class, in, ah, Tisch. I think it was Tisch. The first plane hit right before we went into class. And at that point we all thought it was an accident. And then when we left Spanish class, there was kind of like a little lounge area, and all the teachers were watching on TV, and at that point the second plane had hit and they knew it was no longer an accident. And I was on my way to one of my first Anthro classes with Professor [Gerry] Erchak, and we went in, and sat down, and everyone was kind of in shock, and he just said go home. And, ah, it was, ah, a shocking, you know it was shocking for everyone. I was kind of in a group of transfer students cause they put all of the transfer students in Moore for our first semester. I am not really sure why. Hm. But there were some transfer students from New York City who were obviously much more affected because they had family members very close to the city. And that afternoon, the president of Skidmore at the time was Jamie Studley, and they called a meeting on the green and I can remember – it was a beautiful day. Warm, sunny, and, you know just trying to figure out how to cope with what had happened and what was still unfolding that day. You know, it was really kind of – it was a terrible way to start my Skidmore experience, but at the same time watching students come together and comfort each other and not really knowing where we'd go from here and how our country was going to change because of this attack you know it was, um, maybe it was a little bit easier to have a community around you that, you know, we were all trying to figure it out together. (13:37) IL: That's sounds wonderful to have that Skidmore community in place. Thinking about that community, how would you define it during your time at Skidmore? Was this moment of 9/11 kind of one of those definitive pieces that you think exemplifies what it means to be part of the Skidmore community? (13:54) LR: I would say, you know, people coming together and thinking about larger context is a way to describe Skidmore. I guess I haven't really thought about my cumulative Skidmore experience. You know that's definitely one of the times that's like a picture in my memory, that I remember being at Skidmore. But there are lots of others also. I think like any time you have like a national traumatic event like that you remember where you were, what you were doing when that happened, and how you felt. But I don't know that it really– that it defined my whole experience there. Maybe it was a good starting point to know how the college was going to be able to bring people together to be able to react to, you know, a common grieving experience. But, you know, overall, my Skidmore experience was, was great. I had a lot of really great professors that I knew on an individual level. That I, you know, I think a lot of college students don't have that. Trying to remember – I had several professors where I actually visited their houses which is kind of a unique, or somewhat unique thing, for I would think, a college student to be able to go to their professor's home. To be welcomed, individually. You know, small class sizes. I was able to – One of the really cool things that Skidmore did was they offered – I was a work study student, and they offered a program where you could work for a local non-profit and Skidmore would pay you to work there. So, um, I – go ahead. IL: Sorry, could you define work-studies as you understand it. Just for the record. LR: So, I believe certain students are eligible to be able to work for– to pay for part of their education. So, they had programs where you could choose a nonprofit and then you would turn in your hours to Skidmore, and Skidmore paid you to work there. So, I choose to work at Saratoga Springs Historical Society, which is now called Saratoga Springs History Museum, which is at the casino at Congress Park. And of course, I lived in Moore for my first semester, so I could walk to the casino. And, ah, I was an intern there, and it was really great to be able to make a lot of connections downtown in the local history community. I was able to work with Jamie Parillo who was the director there, but also, they had a curator and they had someone who administered the Bolster Collection which is an important Saratoga Springs photography collection. So, I worked in the photograph collection, I cleaned exhibits, I helped send out mailings to the volunteers, to the membership list. I worked at their holiday gala, helping. I did research and wrote a panel for one of their exhibits. I got a lot of experience working at a small museum and knowing what it's like to have to wear the many hats that you do if you work for a nonprofit or a small museum, public historian. Ah, so, you know, I thought that, that was a really great thing. It really benefited the community and it benefited me as a student being able to get this experience and figure out what its really going to be like. Because I do think, you know, Skidmore – I don’t know if you still have this terminology, but what we called the Skidmore bubble, you know where people – it's a, it's different than reality when you are at Skidmore because there are really grand ideas. It's a really conducive place to think outside the box and then sometimes when you graduate and you go into nonprofits or small businesses, it’s not always, it doesn't always line up with the grand idea that you think you are going to be able to do. So, having that real-world experience and being, having Skidmore being able to pay for it, because the museum would never have been able to pay you to work. I thought that was a really great thing to do. Trying to think – I ah, after I left Moore, I was there for one semester then I moved to Scribner Village in a drama house. Actually, Cabaret Troupe had their own house. I don't know if they still do it this way but club could live together. You could apply for a house, like environmental – I don't know, I'm trying to think what the other clubs are. IL: Could you, um, explain what Scribner Village are. I am a bit confused. LR: So, Scribner was the old houses, I think they are all torn down now, but on the side of campus that was kind of on the Clinton Avenue side, I don't know if there is any left, but they were apartments, kind of like the ones, I can't remember what they are called now, Northwoods or something like that. IL: Oh, yes, uhm. LR: It was like that but way older and, like, not anywhere near as nice as those apartments. I mean it was like moldy and our pipes would freeze. They, ah, I mean it's a good thing they tore them down, it was not good. But, at the time you could apply to live in a house, especially if you had a common interest like a club. So, at that point I was involved in Cabaret Troupe which was the student-run musical theater organization. So, I lived with a bunch of kids that were in Cab Troup, and that was a lot of fun. Because we spent a lot of time at the theater, and Cab Troup didn't really have a home, I’m not sure if they do now, but we would use the Dance Theater as a performance space because we did a full musical in the fall semester and a full musical in the spring semester. Once I got, I think my junior and senior years the spring musical had to be in Falstaff’s. I think we did two shows there, maybe just one show. Because the dance theater – there wasn't enough – there was never enough performance space on campus. That was before you had Zankel. IL: Yeah. So, thinking about shifts then with Skidmore, I know you were there at a time of change for the president. You'd mentioned President Studley before; it's President Glotzbach's last year, so could you talk about that? Was that something that was, um, part of the campus consciousness at all? LR: I remember going to the ceremony when Glotzbach was inducted. But I don't know that really a – I can't remember anything specifically about it or, I don't remember being either concerned or excited about a change in presidency. I would guess that for your average student, things like who your roommate is going to be the next semester or am I going to change my major, or who's my advisor going to be, you know, those, what I'd say local level kind of changes matter much more in my consciousness than who the president of the univ– of the college was. IL: So then thinking about more local consciousness, could you talk about how you, what your relationship with the town was as a student, cause you were talking about living in Moore, and that is not something today Skidmore students experience. Could you expand? LR: Yeah, ah, I mean I – let me think. So, I didn't like living in Moore because you were far away from the rest of the campus. It was like one lone building in the middle of downtown. And especially because we were transfer students, um, you didn't really get the on-campus experience. You weren't, ah, you weren't really, you know like things that happened – There was a bus. There was a bus that ran at certain time that brought you back and forth. But I have a car there, but parking in Moore, there were like literally ten parking spaces and then you had to park on the street., which was hard to get a parking spot. So, it was not convenient to live in Moore even though I had a car. I would have much rather lived on campus because that was where all the events were happening. The one nice thing about being at Moore was because I worked for the Casino I could walk down there. But it was kind of tough not being on campus, especially as a transfer student. I transferred in my sophomore year. So, it was kind of like starting over. And they did kind of group us in with the freshmen a lot because we did have to do orientation and we did have to take out, not sure what you call it now, but LS1, LS2, do you have that? IL: No. LR: Liberal Studies one, it was like a freshman program that you had to take. They made us take it too as transfer students. So, ah, you know, I loved the community, but I think as far as being acclimated and being enveloped into the college community it was tough to be in Moore. So, I was only down there for one semester. But, you know, I think that the community, because I worked in the community, you know, I was able to form relationships with people that were downtown. The woman who was in charge of the Bolster collection at the time I was working at the casino, her name is MaryAnne Fitzgerald, she was a UWW– what's it called, yeah, University Without Walls? Do you still call it that? IL: Um, – can you elaborate? LR: There was a program for mostly adult students. Yeah, I'm thinking that's what it was called. IL: I think that was, but I'm not sure we have that anymore. LR: Okay. She was able to get her degree though Skidmore as an adult. So, she was a Skidmore alum and she had gone through the American studies program, but much later in her life. And she now serves as Saratoga Springs city historian. So, I work with her all the time now, but I was introduced to her as a Skidmore student and she was a Skidmore alum, so, you know I thought that the connection between Skidmore and the community was a good one. IL: Fantastic. Could you talk about what it was like to then go downtown once you were on campus and removed from that more. LR: Um, I was still downtown a lot. My, my junior and senior years, I worked for– I worked at the library. I was a student supervisor; I spent a lot more time on campus then and because I was working at the library. And I still – I had a job at home. I only lived an hour away. Working for the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. There was a camp ground on the lake, so I would actually drive home on the weekends as soon as the camp ground opened and work. But, I, I still went downtown all the time. I mean I had a lot of friends who lived Downtown. Cause once you get into upper classmen; they were all moving off campus and living in apartments downtown. So, I spent a lot of time downtown still. And I always loved downtown, um, you know, all the restaurants and shopping, and uh, trying to think. I think my sophomore year there was like a Skidmore community chorus, I don't know if they still do that, but it was members of Skidmore– Skidmore students and members of the community singing together in a chorus. We did that. IL: So then could you talk about how your relationship has changed with Skidmore now that you have graduated. LR: Sure. So, you know, I feel very grateful to Skidmore, I feel like I really got a great education there. I went on to get my masters right after I left Skidmore. I went to U Albany and got my master’s in public history and I started working right way for an archeologist. So I graduated in, May of '04, and in August I got a job working for Curtain Archeology, and the, the two owners of the company, Ed Curtain used to, he would teach – he wasn’t a professor there but he would teach archeology, I think, at Skidmore, and his partner Carry Nelson was a Skidmore alum. I actually got the job, well, I knew about the job because it came through the Skidmore career network, I don't know what you call it now, but I was able to get the notice that they were looking for a researcher. So, and my, I should say, I graduated with a dual degree in anthropology and American studies, so it was pretty awesome that I was able to get a job in my field right away after graduation cause when you get a degree in something like anthropology, the first thing people want to say is [effecting voice] you will never get a job in that! Why are you studying anthropology? Why aren't you in Business? Why aren't you a nurse? Why aren't you a teacher? [drops voice] But that wasn't what I wanted to do. So, I do feel lucky that I was able to find a job right away, in my field, and that job was in Saratoga Springs. They worked, it was cultural resource management, or CRM, so they worked mostly for developers who need to comply with New York State regulation in doing archeological surveys before developers or companies were allowed to build on, you know, mostly develop large sites. So. So I was able to get the job there, and um, I worked there for five years, and in the course of working there I spent a lot of time coming to this office. The Saratoga County Historian’s office, because of their collection here. I needed historic maps and census records, and things like that that weren't always online, so I spent several trips here. I got to be friends with the county historian, and then when this position came open, I left the archeology world to become a historian. And I’ve actually, I've been here for ten years. And I also feel lucky to have this job. It is a great job. And, you know, I've had a lot of interaction with Skidmore since I’ve graduated. I went back to see several of the Cabaret Troupe performances because by the time I was a senior, I was president of the organization. I had a lot of underclassmen that I was friends with and I continued to back. I've seen performances there. I still go back to the library. As an alumni you can use the library, so I still use the library. Any time that any of the professors have asked me to come back and speak about my role in public history, my career, any of that. I've spoken to American Studies classes, and history classes. I served on a panel about public history last year, ah, and actually I was able to get some help through Jordana [Dym] when I was making a documentary on the history of the Great Sacandaga Lake where I had some material – original material – that I was borrowing that Skidmore had the right equipment to be able to scan at a high resolution which I needed for the documentary, and they were able to use an intern to scan all those documents and return the originals to us. They were able to keep a digital copy of the information and I got one for my office and one for the regulating district who allowed me to use the documents. So, I mean I think, I think Skidmore is great for the community. I also serve on, what is sometimes called the Round Table, but is kind of a collaborative historical group that includes Skidmore and the museums in Saratoga Springs and Brookside, which is the county historical society, and my office. And we talk about where collections should go. I did a um – we all worked on a mapping exhibit together in 2015. 2015 was the centennial anniversary of Saratoga Springs becoming a city. We did a mapping through the hundred– through the centennial, I guess. [laugh] I can't remember what it was called but we all used different maps from our collections. And we, ah, were able to put up an exhibit at the casino showing the history of Saratoga Springs through mapping. And it was the Skidmore class that actually put it all together and we just gave our input. IL: Seems like there are a lot of joys in being the county historian. Can you speak to any of the challenges of practicing history in this area? LR: Absolutely. Funding. Funding is always an issue for historians because you are always competing with all the other departments in government. And everyone's always trying to keep the costs down, not raise taxes, um, so you're always scrambling for funding, for getting grants, things like that. We're lucky here in Saratoga county that our elected officials are very supportive of history. We use history as part of our economic tourism base. People are drawn here because we have a significant history, one that's well known. And not just the mineral waters, but there's the racetrack, and Saratoga Battlefield. There are lots of different kind of important events that centered around this area. So, I would say, you know, staffing. It would be great to have a bigger staff so that, you know, there's so much work that could be done here in the collections, in historical preservation, research, writing. There's lots to be done and not enough hours in the day to get it all done. So, you know, I think there's always going to be challenges but I think it's, um, I don't want to say easier, but – I think there's more support for the history community now than there has been in the past. And I think that's a good thing. We are moving in the right direction. IL: [33:53] Fantastic. So, um, one of the things I've understood about Saratoga in general is there has been kind of a historical – a movement for historical preservation. Is that something you feel is still ongoing? You said there's a lot of funding available, or a lot of interest in funding history at least. So, how – could you help me understand how that feeds into the tourism industry. LR: Sure. You know there's a lot of different groups that provide different kinds of historically experiences. Whether you're looking for a cemetery tour, or whether you are looking for genealogical information to find one of your ancestors, historic tours of the race track, visiting a museum. We have lots of different options here, and they all bring in tourist dollars. If they visit the museum, they're going to eat in town. If they're coming to the track, they're going to stay overnight in one of our hotels. If we are interested in our history, you know, people are going to come and see how did you preserve this building, how were you able to fund restoring this cemetery? And then people are more interested in passing on important history to you because they know, or they believe, you will be more able to care for that collection forever, in perpetuity. When you take something on, they want to know that you are going to be open and accessible to the public, and that you are going to continue on caring for the collection. I think the county has done a really good job. There are also several communities and towns and cities in Saratoga county that have historic preservation commissions. They all might call it something different. Historic buildings and structures committee, I think Saratoga Springs is called the Design Review Commission. [cough] Excuse me. So, you know, there are– even in the governments, there are plans and committees in place that are interested in preserving the history so that we don't just wipe out our pasts and start from scratch. And I think that's important. IL: Thank you. Um, so what have – you’ve been talking about your recent project with the Sacandaga Lake. Have there– is there anything you've found while being your time as county historian that you’ve found particularly exciting and that are, kind of, hidden pieces of this history? LR: I mean, I find something interesting every day. I love looking through old documents, you never know what you are going to find. Some of the interesting projects I've worked on – I mean, I think definitely that the Great Sacandaga Lake Project is nearest and dearest to my heart because that's where I grew up. I think that that story really needed to be told, and we told it from the perspective of the people who had to move. Whose land was claimed by eminent domain and they had to leave their homes. So, I think I'm probably most proud of that documentary which hopefully will be on PBS next year. [laughs] IL: Oh, congrats! LR: Thanks. So, there’s lots of other good projects I’ve worked on. I give a presentation about the county– the Homestead which is the Saratoga county Tuberculosis hospital that I think had a lot of myths around it, thank you, internet. And, um, [laughs from both] we were actually able to put together a really good collection. We had some good donations come from that because, you know, when you get the truth out about something – and it’s not always easy to do because a lot of times people don’t want their history debunked. They want to believe what they have always been told in the past. There’s always more clarity to be added to those stories. And we continue to do that, right? I mean this is not the defining moment of history. From twenty years from now there’s going to be more information to add to those stories also. So, I am not of the mind that you just are able to say well that's not true, this is the real story. There'll always be interpretation connected to the past. But you know a couple different county institutions that are able to get information out about – the other is the county court poor house. That's really important to our past and the way we treated people who didn't have the money or the means, or maybe the ethnicity that we valued at different points during our history. Right now, I'm actually co-hosting a podcast with a New York State Historian called "A New York Minute in History." I was actually at WAMC studio's today recording our script for that. That's Northeast Public Radio. So, you know, there's lots of different projects. And even here, just looking through documentation, I keep finding lots of really interesting cases all the time. And I get hundreds of inquires a year with people looking, either at their house histories, their property histories, a farm, genealogy absolutely. There's tons of questions about genealogy. Quaker history, all those different kinds of things like that. You know, there are small gems everyday that you are able to help people find or add to the collection, so. There is no typical day. It's different all the time, and I really like that and the county has given me a lot of support with being about to choose which direction I'm going day-to-day. And of course, 2020, we've got some pretty important anniversaries coming up including the centennial anniversary of the nineteenth amendment and women getting the right to vote. It's also the seventy-fifth anniversary of end of World War Two. We still have some WWII veterans alive here. Few, but some of them. But being able to celebrate that and their generation is really important too. IL: [40:40] So, thank you, that's very illuminative of your interaction I think with the broader county history. Can you talk about your interaction with Saratoga as a private citizen? So, do you go into town still, often? Do you– is it a less frequent thing, are you more over here in Ballston Spa, or with your family? How's that kind of evolved for you as time's gone on? LR: You mean Saratoga Springs, the city? IL: I mean, kind of generally I guess, yes. LR: Hmm, yeah, I still go to Saratoga Springs all the time. It's a great community. I am in Ballston Spa a lot, because that's where my office is. I still go back to Skidmore, and I still visit the track. Yeah, I mean Saratoga Springs is a great place, and I’m still very involved in some collaborative groups up there. As far as historic preservation, we actually have an oral history group that's lead up by Laurie Weese of the Saratoga Springs public library. She works in their Saratoga Room, which is their local history room. We're actually working on some collaborative oral history group projects, including digitizing what we already have in our collections, and hopefully soon, phase two will be adding more oral histories. So, yeah, absolutely, I'm still there all the time. IL: So, of course, this is part of an oral history, so that living memory. It's a very valuable part of how we understand things. Do you feel that the con– How– Let me rephrase that. How continuation of memory – How has that factored into your experience? LR: I'm not sure what you mean. IL: So the fact that there's institutions that have been set up to preserve memory, but then also working with people to capture, whether oral histories and thinking about sustaining these institutions as you were talking about having a place for people to deposit their histories. So that sort of continuation. LR: So, do I think it's important to continue capturing oral histories? IL: Mmm, more, how have you personally engaged with preserving memory beyond, ah, physical paper records? LR: So, yeah, I've done a few oral histories, and I do think they're important to take. I actually am working on a project right now. I have someone in my family, my grandfather, was one of five brothers form the same family who served in World War Two, and when I was at Skidmore, two of those brothers were still alive. And I took a class from Professor [David] Eyman, in History, about WWII, and my final paper was about these five brothers and their rolls in WWII. And I have their oral histories that I did when I was a Skidmore student that I have digitized and added to the collection here because they lived in Saratoga County. So, I think it's really important. We did lots of oral interviews for the film, The Great Sacandaga Lake. And we did both people who had their own memories and then we also did historians in the area who had collected information from other people. And then we also had some modern programs that are going on today, like invasive species stewards, people who check for water quality, things like that. So, you know I think it's really important to capture that, digitize it. And, you know, obviously you have to take– [paused] Marian Fitzgerald who’s the city historian always says we have to call them oral narratives, rather than oral histories because you're talking about someone's memory. You're not talking about a fact, a published fact of history, and sometimes they get it wrong. And I'm sure there are somethings in here that I'm getting wrong, but it’s what– it’s my narrative. So, that being said, I don't think it takes away from what those memories are and the including bias that you are getting as part of that interview– I think it changes, for instance, what pieces of the interview you include in the film or you'll include in whatever piece you're putting together. But I don't think that by any means that takes away from what those memories are. In fact, I think it adds more to what they believe was happening at the time, what their perception of that history is, or what it has become. Evolved. Because a lot of times, you know, we were asking people – we were asking someone who was in their nineties to remember what it was like when she was five years old. ... IL: So then to circle back a bit. So, one thing I am interested on hearing your perspective on is Cabaret Troupe. So, they've been struggling recently to have the number of members to make musicals. LR: Really. IL: Yeah. So, this is one of these on-going stories on the Skidmore campus. So, can you talk about what Cabaret Troupe was during your time. LR: Yeah, mmm. Cab Troupe– Cab Troupe was student run, which was different than the department. So, we didn't get credit for what we did. We always had to fight for performance space, we had to fight for a budget. And it was a ton of work. But there was really no other place to perform musicals because the department never did musicals, they did straight plays. And– but we pulled in, we had a lot of people, that– department kids that were also in Cab Troupe, and we usually had an orchestra that was taken from Skidmore's orchestra. [IL: Yeah.] A pit band, I should say, from the orchestra. So, we had other people that were not just musical theater geeks. But it was a ton of work that you didn't get credit for, but we did it because we loved doing it. And we – you know, we had to hire people for sound, and [laughs] and set construction. But I'm surprised to hear that because we always had a huge group of people. IL: So then could you elaborate on the relationships with the departments. So you said you had people from the orchestra and the theater, so this was kind of outside of the department, and just students who came in, or was this partly department, I’m going to say– not told to do, but the departments would kind of express support for. LR: I would say it was pretty separate because we were completely student run. We did have some, you know fighting for performance space was really tough because the dance theater– I mean, the dance department at Skidmore was really big, and they were, there were always other groups that wanted to be able to perform at the dance theater and we always ended up getting into conflicts with other groups because, I'm sure you know to put on a musical you need a lot of rehearsal time. And you have a set- [phone rings in background] Sorry. I'm going to wait till it’s over. IL: Okay. LR: So, we need a lot of rehearsals time there, and it was tough to fight for, and that's why I think my senior year we ended up coming to the compromise that we would have one musical at the dance theater and one at Falstaff’s. Because Falstaff’s was not an ideal performing space. In fact, in I think my senior year the heat broke there, and it was broken while we were rehearsing. We had to wear like hats and gloves and coats inside the building. It took forever to get the part they needed. Definitely less than ideal and we couldn't fit a lot of people in there. And we used to sell out most of our performances in the dance theater. So, I don't think the departments were against us, but it was difficult, we really had to work at being able to find our way and find support. I don't want to say there was anybody that wasn't supportive, and we did have help from the theater department at times. But we were really kind of our own entity. IL: Thank you. Um, so thinking then about, your experience with the American Studies Department. It seems like it was very formative for you. Could you talk more about what the program was while you were at Skidmore? LR: Yeah. I liked the interdisciplinary approach because I had a lot of different interests. And I think that probably goes back to growing up in a small school where you had to be involved in everything, to make it work, to have enough kids to participate or make a go of it. So, I had already said I was interested in anthropology. That's kind of how I started out my freshman year. So, I already had some classes in anthro, and then when I started with American Studies, I took an intro class with Professor Greg Pfitzer, and I just, I fell in love with the class. I thought it was just great. there were so many different aspects to it, and the idea that you could take classes in the history department, or women's studies, or English and have them count towards your American studies degree, I thought was a really innovative approach. And there were some students in my class that had – I can't remember what it was called – where you – self determined major. So, you know, it was, kind of Skidmore's idea that you didn't have to fit your studies into a box and have a single degree that said this is what I know how to do. But that you could in cooperate all these different pieces to fit into the puzzle of, you know, how you could be a well-rounded researcher. Because you know that's something that is very interdisciplinary. So, I just, I really liked the classes. We had a lot of decades classes. I don't know if they still do that, but I had one on the 1930s which was kind of like our methods class. I took one on the 1950s. And then senior year, the class that everybody wanted to take was the seminar on the 1960s with Professor Pfitzer. It just, you know – really understanding in our country where we came from. And when I was– when I was little, elementary school, I think probably fifth grade and seventh grade, my parents decided we were going to take these road trips. It used to be you had two weeks off at Easter instead of one week off for President's week and then one week for Easter, we had two weeks off at the same– put together. And, um, the first time we had a minivan. And I have a brother who’s two years older than me and my parents drove us across country, over two weeks, in the minivan. And we got to see all of these American history sites first hand. Things like the Indianapolis speedway, the St. Louis Arch, and the museum of westward expansion. Mount Rushmore, Custard's Last stand, intertwined, like, with Americana. Like the Corn Palace which is a building made completely out of corn. So, you know, there were all of these things. we did like a northern route the first time we went, and two years later we kind of like a southern route that include like Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico. And I really think that those trips and seeing what the country was like in all the different areas, ah was, really helped form what I was interested in as history goes. And I think taking those decades classes of, you know, what the country was going through, not just east coast, the whole country at different times. I think that was really formative in helping me figure out, you know, what is America? How did we get here? What is important about our past? How we place value on different things we've done, accomplished. Or maybe things we haven't done, or things that we want to sweep under the rug and not talk about. So, so I think American studies helps you explore that and come to terms with being an American and studying our past and, you know, I just– it was really a perfect, a really perfect fit for me. IL: That sounds amazing. Um, before we're get to the end here, is there anything we haven't discussed that you'd like to bring up? LR: Not that I can think of. I'll probably think of it you know ten minutes after. IL: Of course, of course. LR: That's how it works. [laughter] No, I think that's it. IL: Then is, ah, I'd like to just kind of reflect for a moment on, sort of, your journey, and it seems that Skidmore offered you a place to have a different way of thinking about things. How do you think that's a, kind of, been something that you've taken with you? LR: Hmm. I mean I think Skidmore really allows you to think not within a certain constructed box. And, you know, the idea of being interdisciplinary is something everyone can benefit from. And I think that's kind of been a theme through my life. You know, I'm thinking my senior seminar in American Studies, I dealt with reenactors, so, um, and kind of the bad rap they get, but also what they do to push historical study, historical interpretation. You know, places like colonial Williamsburg, or you know, or just pop-up reenactments, Civil War reenactments, things like that. And I think that probably reflects my interest in history with my love of performance, musical theater. So, I think– And that's something that I continue today. I'm still am– I co-direct drama club for my kids at school and I'm in musical theater all the time. But I also am still interested in local history– history on a local level, stories that haven't been told. So I think, you know it just allows you to develop those skills that– Here's Skidmore that’s like a really, I'd say, well-funded institution. They've got a lot of equipment and resources at their finger tips. They allowed me to work for a small museum that didn't have any of that. You got to see both sides of how that kind of works. And I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess, today. Cause I do– I'm employed the government, but I, you know I do a historian's job. So, I guess maybe it gave me confidence that it can be done. You can find a middle-ground, and you can pull from different areas of your interest, and um, and your talents to be able to make whatever that journey is that you're on to try– to make it work, to make it successful, and accomplish whatever it is you set out to do. IL: Thank you. I've just one quick thing you've mentioned, and I'd just like to elaborate on quickly. You mentioned that you co-direct for your children's elementary school. Could you help me understand what your kind of being a parent in the community is like? LR: Sure, so I actually live in Edinburgh, which is a tiny little town on the Great Sacandaga Lake. It's within Saratoga County, but it's ten minutes from where I grew up. So, my kids, I have a nine-year-old son and a seven-year-old daughter, and my kids go to a very small school, only pre-K through six, and my son has like nine kids in his grade, and my daughter does too. So, I am able to help co-direct their drama club that was started just a few years ago in their elementary school. So, it's just kind of giving back to the community, letting the kids have the same kind of opportunity I did when I was little, to be able to perform. And hopefully instill a love of theater in them too. IL: Wonderful. Thank you very much and thank you for agreeing to do this interview with me. It's been really wonderful talking with you Lauren. LR: You're welcome, thank you. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58:41 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 44.1 kHz Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview 00:00:00 Header 00:00:51 " used to come to Saratoga to go to the racetrack" 00:01:28 Grew up in Northville 00:02:40 budding interest in local history from exploring as a child 00:02:46 Great Sacandaga Lake 00:03:23 School growing up 00:04:12 Life in a small town 00:07:13 Trips around the area 00:08:10 Races at 00:08:56 going to college, first St. Lawrence, then transferring to Skidmore 00:10:41 musical theater 00:11:30 Experiencing 9/11 at Skidmore College 00:13:52 Reflection on the Skidmore community. 00:15:52 Work-studies 00:17:36 " and knowing what it's like to have to wear the many hats that you do if you work for a nonprofit or a small museum, public historian" 00:19:02 old Scribner village 00:20:09 Cabaret Troupe 00:21:12 Glotzbach's induction was not especially significant to the students 00:22:11 Living in Moore away from campus in town with other transfer students. 00:24:33 University Without Walls 00:25:35 Work 00:26:45 Community Chorus 00:27:03 Post-grad 00:31:21 The Round Table discussions in Saratoga county about history. 00:32:22 Funding of history in the area. 00:34:22 Historical tourism in Saratoga. 00:38:18 Practice of history 00:40:58 Still come to Saratoga Springs and Skidmore, as well as being part of a historic preservation group. 00:41:32 "Collaborative oral history group projects" between the Saratoga Library and the county. 00:42:44 "I've done a couple oral histories" as an interviewer. How she personally is engaging with oral history, including oral histories done as a Skidmore student. 00:45:36 Defining Cabaret Troupe her time at Skidmore. 00:47:34 Departments and Cabaret Troupe "pretty separate." Eventually compromising on fighting for space by using Falstaff's. 00:49:36 Liked the "interdisciplinary approach" of American Studies. 00:50:41 Self-determined major "Skidmore's idea that you didn't have to fit your studies into a box." 00:51:16 "Decades classes" on each decade of US history. 00:51:45 Family road trips when she was little, seeing sites of American history and American. "seeing what the country was like in all the different areas." Shaped her interest in history. 00:53:54 American studies "helps you come to terms with being an American and studying our past." 00:55:00 "Skidmore allows you to think not within a certain constructed box." 00:55:27 Senior seminar in American studies "dealt with reenactors." 00:56:08 "I co-direct drama club for my kids' at school," and her application of things she was involved in at Skidmore in her life now. 00:56:36 Experience while at Skidmore prepared her for job today and reflecting on the journey. 00:57:40 Being a parent in her community and doing drama for her children's school. 00:58:41 END Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lauren Roberts Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 28, 2019 Language A language of the resource Eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Isabel Long, '21 Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Lauren Roberts https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/c485d466be1911234fdd757f0ed649ad.JPG bfb0857ea1b315fd2856f8694ae7d93d https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/470b3872bfe55b90577607eaef10e976.mp3 4b5b7c922d44c1e9dbffc058a87b253d https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/7c2b15b09f5d782bda2bb4de5f805e9e.pdf 9c1b3529981116e1270b4e5d2426d626 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/e593cd5557125fccb070c8e3d94b1faf.JPG b290b262f63003580268a9e5e61aa808 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Elizabeth Picken Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Elizabeth Picken '21 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tod Pardon Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Tod Pardon Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 26, 2019 Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elizabeth Picken, '21 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tod Pardon https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/cc8038814c5e62f770f4bac5413ef3b5.JPG 2869b9d9a3cf0e65dda9587598353851 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/8b70ad1e4a064010f854d607b987498d.mp3 fb50e97167f893d59365fdaeccc83337 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/1844591779534a0324bb2be123a09160.pdf 6211e04b033deb7d8269c8be1de3bbee https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/bafa16de22996c19723c641191f07468.JPG 7a1b9774eb6b3f32579317e95e22375e https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/7abc3a4b940ddbc03035eb0a01548878.JPG c788632722d7d840f347bdd10a00362c https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/1ce586bc5b14dd64b75ad8ee5ec35d6a.JPG 598bc109b6c1b08b410fe9a408ddc908 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/615b531a4fb466502ffabc4c9fa8b6ca.JPG 45606424bc352d16ceb8fb8208e1fe89 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/25ba143b7c301ecb415263c0b7f2725e.pdf c1ece65511f6074dfa0abd8411e9b7c6 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/bcdaafd5f24bb7942cca1ccb8a0c5acf.pdf f7f539e4f9e1f79d4e8ffa36d77a3327 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/a3ff99faf8ea448fa30520c4cf4777f8.pdf 2828f0342526d891a429ae8368be35dd https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/6d9743a03fda2099f8d2aa847a31db64.mp3 b5c2561388de58e1571c03021a19b19b https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/50821ea7a3ad7958932123cbdc0cb6b8.m4a 5db3f4f36182b00eaf1bb342fbc1caae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Milan Stimler Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Beverly Mastrianni Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Beverly Mastrianni Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 28, 2019 Language A language of the resource English Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource This is an interview with Beverly Mastrianni for the Skidmore Saratoga memory Project. Mastrianni is an alumna of Skidmore College, arts advocate, and artist in Saratoga Springs. She chronicles her work with the community and in the studio in this ninety minute interview. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Milan Stimler, '21 Subject The topic of the resource Interview with Beverly Mastrianni Date Created Date of creation of the resource. October 28th 2019 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/fe55a79c8f42bfb4147ab46bec293719.jpg 3892ed4cb7fadc8eb842f81403a63782 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/a5bc8fa925a5404b7be3b2455f6ad96b.mp3 d294d057639fafc339d4d5649f18d3b9 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/4f8b3e4295aa36c07243430a9bd3c904.pdf dd3529f20b52d5fc0dbeab23ede068a3 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/132c41f4eadfd750431f9aa3b3737cc1.pdf 993a57633e53706747d531993d6554ac Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Mateo Bolado Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Kenneth Klotz Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Mateo Bolado Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 1/11/19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ken Klotz Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 25, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Springs Memory Project Language A language of the resource English Description An account of the resource This is an oral history of Ken Klotz for the Saratoga Springs Memory Project. Ken is a former faculty member of Skidmore College, Ex-Mayor of Saratoga Springs, Former Finance Commissioner, and Former Chair of the Saratoga Democratic Committee. In this one hour interview, we hear about Ken's childhood all the way to his time as the Mayor of Saratoga Springs and everything in between. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mateo Bolado, '23 Subject The topic of the resource An Oral History of Ken Klotz. Date Created Date of creation of the resource. October 25th 2019 Democratic Party Local Politics oral history Saratoga Springs Saratoga Springs Politics Skidmore College Skidmore faculty Yale https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/e09c8c9e5a17fce2b2b4a5743d84386b.png 5f059df335ed5c0f08fcd3ed9080109a https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/18ad9c7c7702d732e925be72caa0c9fe.m4a 805ec005958fae1e659dbca4db796ea7 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/80ffce96906a10dced5adbf6af2f08a8.pdf cb172e4b674b31e9e2e4f3e0ee1bc200 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/2417b8ef23f3ccb8833084604b2c22ed.pdf 0cbf5152ff698803da0b600fffb94f3b https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/44b850fe3c23f3027a8ba647ccecec3f.m4a 87fdeb2781e84c2fde326bcefd615c28 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/94785925a3b6f1a435d2070b99e719db.pdf 96ccc0fcbd3ec1ef48fbae86d2356e0d https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/239344656eb93a2c5a1f82fcfc6904ff.pdf 0d2da0cec4811662d3c0187c46a5f5aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Isabel M.R. Long '21 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sandra Welter Location The location of the interview Scribner Library, Skidmore College Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound November 23, 2019 Interview Isabel M.R. Long: So, my name is Isabel Long. Today is November 23rd, 2019. It is approximately 12:05 in the afternoon. I am in library room 128B, here with Sandra Welter. Sandy has been a– is a retired professor from Skidmore. She worked here for many decades in many facets of the college. So, Sandy, could you introduce yourself? Sandra Welter: Great, thank you, Isabel. It's actually a pleasure to be part of this project, and I was very glad to be asked to be involved. I came to Saratoga Springs as a Skidmore wife back in 1971. So, I've been connected to Skidmore for many, many, many years. I was a graduate student at that time, finishing my graduate work, I finished that work. My husband at the time was working here at Skidmore, and I then spent seven years teaching in the high school. I was an English teacher in the high school – junior high school and high school. We had our children. I left public school teaching and then, when my children were young – three, four, five years old – I decided I would like to do some part-time work. The public schools at that time, in the late 70's, were not as modern in their thinking about people working part-time in positions like teaching. So, I was– I approached Skidmore and asked if there were any opportunities. I actually began my teaching and administrative career at the University Without Walls. The University Without Walls is no longer functioning here at Skidmore, but it was a very important aspect– branch of the educational opportunities at Skidmore for non-traditional, adult students who needed to complete their undergraduate degrees. These are men and women who began their college career and were unable to complete it for a number of reasons, or never started college at the traditional moment. At age eighteen. The University Without Walls was a fabulous introduction for me into the Skidmore community. I was an advisor to many of our UWW students. I taught basic English composition as independent studies for many of our students that were off campus, for which many of our UWW students were. And then I worked with a lot of faculty as I administered putting together programs, curricula, for some of our UWW students. So, I got to know a lot of our faculty. One of the aspects, one of the branches of UWW that was vibrant in the mid-70's, all through the 80's, and into the early 90's was the UWW prison program. The prison program was a full academic bachelorette program that we brought to two correctional facilities in upstate New York, about an hour from Skidmore. Every night, at four o'clock, a cadre of twenty – fifteen or so, twenty – Skidmore faculty would finish their work here at Skidmore with the undergraduates, get in their cars and drive up to Comstock, New York, and teach their series of courses to a select group of inmate students who had applied to Skidmore, who had been accepted, and who had received funding – both federal and state funding ¬– to support their college education. So, I started teaching in that program because I could be home with my children during the day, and when my husband got home, I could be off doing my teaching at night. So, it worked out perfectly for me, I taught in the prison program for ten years. I became the director of that program, the last four years of it. I unfortunately– When we lost funding– both federal and state funding – I then, with the help then of the faculty here at Skidmore, we had to close the program down. But those ten year were the most vibrant teaching experience I had ever had, to date, at that point. And I met and worked with so many faculty that were so giving of their time to a population that didn't have access to education at all. And it changed lives radically. I say that with complete confidence. It's not like I imagine that they changed lives, I knew that this program changed individuals lives, and families lives, communities. Everything, these men would go back into their communities a much more viable source of positive influence, both on their families and on their communities. But unfortunately, in 1993 the funding for this program was pulled, both at the federal level and at the state level, and we had to close our program down. we graduated many hundreds of students. I worked in that program even after the program was closed. We volunteered. We had a group of volunteer faculty that would go up for no pay that would do reading groups, study groups, in order to talk with former students. We kept that going as long as we possibly could. At that point I began teaching part-time in the English department and moved to what the college had, at that point, was a master’s program. So, I moved from just part0time work teaching in the English department to full-time administrative work in the master of arts and liberal studies program. That program, again, was like UWW but at the graduate level. I was the administrator. I was the director of that program for some years and advised many graduate students as they put together these interesting interdisciplinary graduate programs. That program also was closed. And, so at that point I began teaching full-time in the English department, and that is what I did until I retired two years ago. And met wonderful students. like you, and students– the first time I had ever deeply embedded myself in the residential program. Many of my experiences at Skidmore were with our non-traditional students, our UWW students, our prison students, our graduate MLAS students, all of whom were off campus. They were not necessarily residential. So, that gave– this last ten year of my career gave me a wonderful experience of embedding myself in the residential community where I was working full-time with freshmen, sophomores, juniors, teaching English 103, English 105. I worked with our international students in a course numbered English 100 which was for international student for whom English as not their first language. So, I worked with them preparing them to begin doing the work that was required of them at Skidmore. So, I've had a really varied experience of teaching at Skidmore, and I one I couldn't possibly replicate any other place. One of the wonderful things about Skidmore is they were, historically were so open to new ideas about how to educate people, who could be educated, who should be educated. And Skidmore as a place that had a very open mind about that, those questions. IL: Fantastic, thank you. You were taking about UWW, so I would like to go back that first [SW: Sure.] before kind of revisiting the different moments in your career. [SW: Sure.] So with UWW, you have set up kind of the who and when for me, can you tell me a bit about the how? SW: Sure. Men and women would apply to the University Without Walls program, they would be reviewed through an admissions committee. They would be interviewed. We would determine what their interests were and whether or not Skidmore had the capacity to fulfil their undergraduate requirements. Historically, if a student came to us and said they wanted to become an electrical engineer, we would probably advise them to go to another institution. That was not a good fit for us. But, for those who were interested in the liberal arts and sciences, those we could accommodate. Once the student was accepted at UWW, he or she got two advisors. One was a major advisor, and one was a UWW office advisor. Someone who oversaw the compilation of the student's curriculum. That was my job. And so each semester, and in some cases not ever the semester, because in some cases the students were doing independent study and might be working on a course for six months rather than a regular, traditional semester-long experience. UWW would pair that student with an appropriate faculty member. So, my job was to talk to the student, listen to his or her desires of a particular course in environmental studies with a focus on land management, or on sustainability, or on water quality. I would then go to the department, like the environmental studies department, and I would talk with the faculty. I would say I have a student who is interested in land management, or water quality, and he or she wants to do an independent study or many if they were local, take a course with you. Would you be available and willing to work with that student? SO my job was to pair students and faculty in their learning. That was a hundred and twenty credits, so that was a lot of hands-on work. It was very labor-intensive process of getting a student through an undergraduate degree at UWW. But, we had an amazingly energetic faculty who were willing to work with our UWW students independently. They often invited local independent UWW students into their classes too so they could hear the lecture right on campus. So, it was a very useful kind of collaboration. That's how it worked. Students worked through their courses at their own pace. All of these UWW students were working men and women. They were not eighteen-year-olds, they were not living on campus, they were not full-time students. So, we had to balance– they had to balance their work life, their family life, and their student life as they proceed to get their undergraduate work done. Not an easy task. And so, for many years in working with these UWW students, I was incredibly impressed with their energy, with their commitment, with their focus because you know how hard it is to get your courses done, imagine if you had a family and a job to balance. And that's what these UWW students were doing. So my job was to facilitate that process and make sure their course work was appropriate, that their degree was balanced, that they had 120 credits, that they had correct distributions, that they had all the components of the major – all the things that your advisor does and your registrar does here on campus, that's what the UWW staff did. IL: That seems very helpful to a broader community interested in pursuing their higher education. SW: Exactly. And UWW was a national forum. Skidmore was not the only campus that ran a UWW program. It was actually a concept that was designed at the federal government level, offering opportunities for adults to go back and finish their degrees. And many campuses across the nation designed UWW program, and Skidmore was one of them. We were one of the earliest ones, and we were one of the latest ones to close. In the meantime, many other colleges across the county also had UWW programs. IL: So then taking the UWW to the prison program, you were talking about faculty going there later in the evenings. So were they doing lectures, or was this again, kind of an independent study type? SW: Yeah. Good question. The prison program looked very much like a residential college program. In other words, the faculty when in, they had a class. They had a class of ten, fifteen, eighteen students. They went in, they sat in the class, they gave lectures, they– the students had their textbooks, they did all the stuff that you would do, that any undergraduate student would do in a class. It was organized by semester, very traditionally. They started and ended in a traditional way. They started, they ended, the students had exams, they received grade. IT was very, very tradition looked because we had the structure. The students were there. It was easier to design that and run that that way than it was for independent adults who were working and living in places all over the country. Our prison program could follow a much more residential pattern, which is what we did. So, the students received transcripts. Their transcripts looked just like our undergraduate residential student's transcript, it's just that it said Comstock on it rather than just plain Skidmore College. It was Skidmore College Comstock Program, which mean that it was offered at the Comstock facilities. IL: Could you help me understand what your personal experience was with that? SW: Well, I had various experiences. Going in– The reason that I got involved in the prison program actually, was that I had a friend who was teaching up there. A colleague, an English professor. And he said to me, one night at home, at my house, we were having a dinner together with a group of friends, and he said "you know, Sandy, I think that you would really like teaching in the prison." And my then-husband looked askance, and said "really," and my friend Bob said "yeah. I think that you would like that. You're the kind of person that I think would be really good. It's not everybody who can do this. Any faculty go up, and they observe, and they say 'Not for me. I don't like the gates; I don't like the feeling worried about being in a prison.'" And he said, "well how do you feel about that?" And I said, well I need to go up and see how I feel. One was a maximum-security prison, and one was a medium security prison, and they were all-male. So of course, there was major concerns. I had major concerns. So, but I said, let me go try. And I walked– I went in with him. I got permission; I had a pass as a guest. I went in with him one evening, and I observed the teachers teaching. I observed the classrooms, I participated in teaching a class with my colleague, and he was right. It was a– it was instantaneous for me. The students were, one, incredibly prepared. Everybody had done their reading, everybody had done their work, everybody came in with hundreds of questions. Some of which were off the wall, but some of which were incredibly insightful. They were like sponges. They were so eager to get this learning and to participate in this exercise. It's like an adventure. This was not their life, imagine, living in a prison. So, at night they could come up and walk into a classroom which had windows and desks. They were with other people, there was a professor there. This as for them lifesaving. And I could tell. I could tell. So, the next semester I taught a class, and I never turned back. I just, I just loved it. I taught composition to mostly freshmen. I then became an advisor, so I was putting together curricula. So, I was making sure the students were developing their majors in certain good way. So, I was working as an advisor, and at the very end I was the director of the program, until we closed. So, lots of great experiences. We had full graduations at the camp– at the prison. We would bring up faculty in their full regalia. Their families could come up, observe their graduation. we would have cake and cookies afterwards. It was as close to normal as we possibly could create given where we were. IL: Wonderful. You wrote a monograph about dealing with behavior. SW: I did. IL: Could you talk about what lead to that, and what you were dealing with? SW: Yeah. One of the– Obviously as a woman, I was always approached by women faculty and men faculty who would say "aren't you afraid? Aren't you threatened? Isn't it dangerous?" Obviously, all appropriate questions. The fact is, I never once – in ten years – never once felt personally threatened. Not once. Now, were there moments? There were maybe, out of ten years, there were maybe three or four moments where there was a scruff. Where there was something that went on– not that had anything to do with me, but was with something in the hallway, or something was going on. But it was immediately shut down, it was immediately– the guards were right there. They're not in your classroom, but they are right in the hall. But personally, I was never approached by a student, by an inmate student, I was never spoken to inappropriately. The students knew that the health and the veracity of this program was on their shoulders. If they screwed up, the prison would close this program down immediately. Skidmore would want to keep coming, but the prison would close it down. So, they knew, if they wanted this program to work, they had to mind their manner. And they did. In fact, they go so wrapped up in their learning there was no time. There was really no time for that. But that being said, a colleague of mine who worked in another prison in the western part of the state, she and I were talking at a conference one time. A prison programs conference that was, happened across the state of New York, and we were talking about, yes, our colleagues were always asking us, you know, what about the behavior? What do you do? And we said, you know, why don't we write a little how-to. Because, yes, of course, there will be situations were a student will overstep, wither knowingly or not knowingly, overstep the line, what do you know. So we decided to put our head together and write a monograph, which we did and we distributed to all of the prison programs across the state for women instructors so that they had a kind of game plan. Or a kind of guidebook. Or to read to decide if they even wanted to do it. And it was great. It was very useful, and the state was very happy that they had it. I gave it to the officers to so that the officers could see what we were saying. And they approved. They said yes, this is appropriate instruction. So we had good cooperation with the prison administration as well. IL: Wonderful. Was there anyone in the program, both with the prison program and with the University Without Walls that was particularly impactful for you personally? SW: Woah. Hundreds, actually. [laughs] Yes, there were some amazing, amazing students. I remember a middle-aged man in the prison program. He was a philosophy major, so he wasn't– he was my advisee. And Michael was– loved to write poetry. And many of the men used to write poetry, and most of it was pretty horrible, but Michael’s was astonishing. It was absolutely publishable. And I can remember when he graduated, he handed me a collection of some of his writings, and I still have them. He's passed away, and he died of AIDS, I believe in the late 80's or early 90's. But he was a very brilliant man and had a really horrible life. But his mind was– just, always remember thinking, anyone looking at this man would think he was just this thug, but all you need to do is just let him speak. Listen to what he had to say, and look at what he was writing about, and you would realize that he had a heart and a mind that was quite beautiful. And so I do remember that. My UWW, not prison students, many students– what I loved about them, they went on to do great things. One on my UWW graduate students is currently directing the economic opportunity program in Saratoga. And she did her degree at Skidmore UWW and was one of my advisees and so she's making a huge difference here in our community here in Saratoga. And that makes me feel great. When I see her name in the paper, and her picture, and the projects that she's doing, I feel like we did the right thing. IL: Well that's wonderful. Another program that I know has been impactful in the community is the Master's of Liberal Studies program. How– could you help me understand your involvement with that, and what that mean to you? SW: Well, we realized that after many years of running UWW, we realized that so many of our graduates kept asking us "we want to do an interdisciplinary master's program. We loved the fact that we could put together our own programs here at UWW. We could create these interdisciplinary, these programs that saw the synergy between different disperate academic inquires. And that by allowing, you know, science and art to talk to each other, we get something bigger and more." And they kept wanting to know where there were graduate programs like that. There weren't very many. There were only, in the country, there was a master's of liberal studies at Gerogetown, there was one in the mid-west, there was maybe one out in Oregon. There weren't very many. And we thought, you know, we should really think about whether or not we the capacity to offer – we being Skidmore. Because of course all these programs need the energy and support of the faculty, and the faculty are [cough] – excuse me – [cough] The faculty have a fulltime job teaching the undergraduate residential students. So, we started small. And I was on the ground floor of this program. Once the prison program closed, I came over. The director of UWW had begun, became the director of MALS, he and his secretary were beginning to put the idea together, and they hired me as the advisor, as the person to help work with the students and put course programs together. It took a while, and we knew that we had to keep it small, cause again, it taxed the energies of the faculty. A graduate student needs more work, needs more attention, needs more intellectual stimulation than an undergraduate. And so we understood that starting a graduate program would mean a real commitment on the faculty's part. So, I worked with the director. We also had a faculty advising committee. We had a group of faculty who came on board and looked at what we could do. It felt like it was workable, so we went forward and designed it pretty much looking like UWW, but instead of 120 credit undergraduate program, it was a thirty credit master’s program. And it was interdisciplinary, so the students had to have at least two disciplines represented, they had to write a thesis, and/or a final program. Some of the performing arts students did photography exhibits, they did creative writing programs, but it was– they had to do a thesis at the end. And those were all to be reviewed by a team of readers. So again, it was very intensive faculty advising, which was on of the reasons why it eventually closed. I mean, it needed so much energy on the part of residential faculty, and the residential faculty was also needing and experiencing more and more with their residential students, their undergraduates, that the college really felt it couldn't sustain it. Which I thought, was probably a reasonable decision on the part of the college. If we are going to do it, we want to do it well, and to the best of everyone's ability. And I think the faculty were feeling very pulled in many directions. IL: Thank you. With this, you were teaching, at the same time a couple classes? SW: Yes. Every semester, while I was doing all my off campus UWW or MALS work, at least one course a semester I would teach in the evening, in the English department. I liked to keep connected– I liked to feel connected to the residential students. IT helped me to make sure that the work I was doing with UWW students and masters students was in line with what the college was doing with its residential students. So, the English department– I as an adjunct faculty member was hired for at least one or two courses in the evening, per semester to teach. And I taught English 103, English 105, and then I worked with the international students. So that was on going. I did that for decades, but it was always quiet, and it was always a smaller part of my Skidmore identity, the most being my work in the non-traditional programs. When both of them closed, UWW and Master, I was not quite ready to retire. I was, I really felt that I had more that I wanted to give, and more, more projects, more opportunities I wanted to offer. I also had a couple of classes that I'd never taught before that were in the back of my head. The most recent being my travel writing course. I'd never taught this, but I's always, always been an avid traveler, I'd always been an avid travel-writing reader, and I kept thinking this is a vehicle that could be a good one to teach freshman comp. The 103, I mean the one-oh-five courses have a topic base, and therefore I kept feeling like there was a real desire and possibility that this could be a great course. So I put together the course, and I proposed it to the English department the last couple of years of my tenure at Skidmore, and that was kind of what I finished my career doing, was teaching my travel-writing courses, which actually were almost another highlight of my career. So, I started with a great highlight in UWW and I ended with a great positive highlight with my travel-writing students. They were, it was a great course. I think they loved it; I learned a lot. We read wonderful writing from travel writers from all over the world, and since retirement I have tried to follow some of their footsteps, and so I have been to many of the places in which we read narratives. So, it's been great. IL: It's fantastic that you were able to kind of move into a second-high point in your career. SW: I did. And it wasn't more of the same. I really wanted to do something different. And I thank the English department very much for allowing me to do that, because they could have said no, keep doing what you are doing, it's fine. And it was fine, but this was a great plus for me, and I was very pleased to do it, and I had terrific students who still stay connected and are always contacting me and letting me know where they are, and where they're going, and were they are traveling, so it's always good. IL: Wonderful. I remember you saying in a previous conversation, maybe a year, maybe two years ago that you taught in Chine briefly. SW: Oh, yes! Yes! I forgot about that, didn't have that on my list! [both laugh] How could I forget?! Yes. When I was working in the master's program, I had done many years at UWW. We were in eh master's program, I was feeling– I was feeling a little stale. I was not doing as much teaching, as much one-on-one teaching. The UWW program offered me lots of really wonderful teaching opportunities. Once that program closed, then the prison program closed, I was doing almost all administration. And I was fine with that, except I really missed the communication and the connection with students. So, I applied for a sabbatical. As an administrator Skidmore does offer, occasionally, an administrative sabbatical. I was not a tenured faculty member, so I wasn't due a sabbatical, but I applied. I gave them a proposal in which I said I would like to teach for a year in China, at the university Skidmore had a relationship with. And my proposal was approved, I was given a nine months sabbatical, and I went to China. [Laughs] I took off. I did not speak Chinese; I did not need to speak Chinese. My students were all English majors at a teaching university in Shandong province, which is provincial. It is not near a big city; it is not near Beijing or Shanghai. It was in one of the oldest– it was one of the oldest universities in China, and one of the oldest communities. It was in the hometown of Confucius. It was were Confucius was born and were his family and he is buried. And around this very old community, they built a university, and it was a teaching university. So off I went. I left for a year. I lived at this university. I had an apartment on the campus. I taught six courses a semester with thirty-five or forty students in a class, so I taught three hundred students in the course of a year. And I taught composition. So, I was teaching – and they were – their reading English was actually quite good. They understood their reading quite well. Their spoken English was not very good because they had no access to native English speakers. The people who taught them oral English were Chinese teachers. Lovely, very lovely people, but their English was not very clear, and so the students' English was not very clear. So, I taught– I did a lot of informal, come to my apartment, let's practice our English. So, at night, I would teach all day, and then at night I would have twenty-five or thirty students for tea, and we would just talk, and practice our English. So, and then I did that for a year. But then I did composition. The year that I was there our students published a literary magazine. I was very proud of that. The only time they've ever done that. We out it together in the Spring semester. We had an editorial board, we had submissions. The students read the submissions, they made selections, they did editing, they did layout, they did artwork, and we put together a literary magazine for the whole junior class. The junior year was when they did their composition writing in their curriculum. So, I was very proud of that. I had it published, and every student got a copy, which I signed before I left. It was great. It was a good experience, a really good experience, and I have still stayed in contact with many of those students who are now middle-aged at this point. Cause I was there in 2001, 2002, so many of them are adults either working in teaching or working in cooperate situations where they are using their English as translation. IL: That sounds really, really formative experience. SW: Yeah. Well it also was– I think it was one of the impetuous for me wanting to do the travel-writing course. When I got back, I thought, there's so much wonderful writing that goes around travel, and new experiences that I really felt– that began to make more interest. And the reason I ended up going – let me share this with you – the reason I really wanted to go to China was that Skidmore was accepting many more international students at that point in the late-90s, early-2000s. And they were in my classes. They were in my one-oh-three classes, or my English one hundred classes, and I was so impressed with their work ethic, and their diligence, and how hard it was for them to work in an environment where this was completely not in their native language. And I thought, I would really like to know more about the Chinese educational system because they are producing these really interesting, smart, thoughtful, fun students that are coming to Skidmore. So that's really what got me started. And when I found out we had a relationship with a university in China that we could send faculty there to teach, I jumped on that opportunity. So Skidmore, the undergraduates were actually my stimulus for me going to China. IL: That's fantastic that the courses here fed nicely in, and then the experience in China fed into your next [SW: Right, exactly.] set of courses. So in working with these international students in EN 100 and EN 103, I know you taught EN one-oh-three for, what, twenty-two years? SW: Right. A really long time. [both laugh] IL: Just a bit. SW: Yeah. IL: [both laugh] Could you talk about, sort of, what that meant to you as an adjunct professor? SW: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's unusual, a little unusual for a faculty member to teach a course for that long. There are many more opportunities, with tenured faculty, for them to do more courses. The English department has to provide, kind of, nuts and bolts necessary writing instruction for every student that comes here. It's our responsibility. Obviously, as you know, every student is required to be a competent writer from the get-go. They walk on this campus and every faculty member expects them to be able to be a thoughtful, competent writer. That is true for most of our students, but not all of our students. And certainly, our international students have a much steeper learning curve. And so, I– I was always a teacher, I am a teacher who likes to work with students who are challenged. I find that absolutely so stimulating. Whether they are adult students coming back and need to work around family, or whether they are prison students who have to deal with their life in prison, as well as their education, or international students who have to deal with a new language, or students, regular residential students who are coming out a high school experience that was maybe not as absolutely basically fulfilling as it could have been. And so, they are here at Skidmore because they are smart. My students are really smart. They are so capable, but their skill level, the stuff that they need to know, the nuts and bolts – the kind of tools that they needed – they may not have them all in their toolbox yet. My job as a 103 teacher was to give them the tools that they may or may not have gotten in high school. And, for me, every student that walked into my class – even though I am teaching the same course – every student who walked in was an individual challenge. And for me that was so stimulating because I had to figure out a way to help each one of these students, in whatever way I could, to get him or her to the place where they could be fully successful at Skidmore. So, I loved that. I loved the idea that helping a student– especially writing. Writing is not a discipline that has right answers the way maybe biology does. Either this is this enzyme, or it’s that enzyme. Or history: it's either this year or that year. You have to know the facts. In writing there's a path to getting better at this skill, but that path is not a single path. Everybody chooses the path that works best for them. My job was to help each student find his or her path to becoming a competent writer. And a confident writer. So many times, my students were really fine writers, but they lacked the confidence. They kept saying, well I'm not a good writer, I'm not a good writer. I said, how do you know that? Somebody told me. I said, well, let's forget that. We're not going to worry about that voice, we're going to start a new voice which is you are a competent writer, and you can get better, and our job is to get you there. And that was how I approached English 103 for twenty years. Or more. IL: This is a wonderful philosophy. Do you feel like you have a set– a guiding philosophies or principles that you've followed? Wanting to help people who have challenging perspectives and challenges that they are overcoming. SW: Right, right. I don't know if I– other than the fact that my first– my basic point is that every student can do it. You can do this. This is not impossible for you. It may feel impossible and it may take twice as long than someone else, but you can become a better writer. Writing is not– Writing is a process, it's not a product, and if you think about that then you are going in the right direction. Students always say look at this piece of writing. My writing is not as good as this piece of writing. That's a product. I'm not interested in the product. How did that writer get to that product? That's what we all need to understand. So, if I can help students realize that the best writers edited, and edited, and rewrote, and rewrote, and rewrote, if I can have students figure that out and understand that their writing can always get better, then I've done my job. Because then the student realizes they're in control. They have the capacity to become a better thinker, a better writer, a better reader. All those three things go together. So, that would be my philosophy, that it's a process not a product. Don't look at the product. IL: That's a wonderful philosophy, and thinking about then, the process, you've been– or were at – Skidmore while technology was changing. SW: Right. IL: That effects many– SW: Huge! Yes, yeah, great question. Yeah, I'm thinking back over my early years. In fact, I always used to tell my students about using a typewriter, and of course they would look at me like I was crazy. They would– I would tell them about the card catalog in the library, where you would have to go an actually look at a piece of three-by-five card to find the book and go in the stacks, and that there was no electronic databases at all, these kinds of things. But, yes. And writing has been incredibly impacted by all the technology. Research, for example, was a– used to be a big frustration for me. I always wanted the students to get into the library to understand the notion of searching out information using, what I considered the old way of thinking about knowledge acquisition. The students taught me so much more because they are so much more facile with the electronic databases, with accessing information. My job for them was to always help them sort out what was the value of the information. It's not quantity, it's quality, and so my shift– I had to shift my focus from here's how you get information – research, etc. – to how do we know this information is valuable, it's correct, it's been reviewed. That's critical nowadays because there's too much information out there and it make students crazy. They grab the first ten things they find, eight of which are bogus. They have to figure out, let's make sure they understand how to validate the data they are gathering and the information that they're reviewing, and to realized that more so now than ever before, the author has to be validated. What is the author's point of view? Who is the author? Is there an agenda behind the author's point of view? Are we getting a balanced approach to the information? So, technology has made students, faculty lives, both more helpful, more easier, but also there are much more responsibility that come along with this huge availability of information that we must be responsible for figuring out what's valid and what isn't. IL: That's a great– That's really interesting for me to hear about the shift in research, because that is such a big part of student life now. SW: Exactly. I mean, huge, huge amounts. Students do their research in their dorm rooms. That's not the way I did any of my research as an undergraduate or as a graduate student. Or as a teacher! Even as a professor I would be in the library, I still an in the library. It feels right to me to be in the library, but I'm becoming a relic. And students who are– the young faculty who are coming on board, they do their research just like our undergraduates do now. So it's becoming a little more seamless. We older folks are fading away [laughs] and moving into– we understand that times are changing. IL: So we're wrapping up the interview here. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like to cover? SW: No. I'm glad you asked about China because I totally forget about my China experience which was amazing. As I said at the beginning, I think that my profession trajectory is so uniquely a part of the Skidmore philosophy. I don't know of another institution that would have allowed me, encouraged me, championed me, to do the kinds of things I have done at Skidmore over thirty-three years. It's a testament to Skidmore's creative thought matters slogan that they allow an individual like me, a faculty like me, to do, to think, to work with students, to incorporate, to invite different populations of students into the Skidmore learning experience. And I can't thank the college enough for that. It's been a terrific experience for me. My children, who did not go to Skidmore, they think very, very warmly of this place, and understand how much it's meant to me and it has affected them too as they've watched me do my teaching the way I have. So, I thank Skidmore a great deal for that opportunity. IL: wonderful. So thank you very much Sandy. SW: You're welcome, you're welcome, Isabel. This has been a great pleasure, and good luck on the project. IL: Thank you very much. February 5, 2020 Interview Isabel M.R. Long: My name is Isabel Long. Today is February 5th, 2020 and I'm here with Sandra Walter in library 126 – sorry, 128C. We're on Skidmore College campus. We are here to do interview two of two in our series for the Saratoga Skidmore memory project. So just to give a brief overview of what we previously covered, we talked about the prison program that ran at Saratoga, in– with the local prison for a while, and we talked about graduate programs which Sandy was head for a while. We talked about her time teaching EN103, and traveling to China and working in China, and then teaching her travel writing class. Sandy Welter: All good. [Both laugh.] All right. Thanks for reminding me. IL: You're welcome. It was a fabulous conversation. SW: It was, I enjoyed it very much. IL: I'm glad, I did too. So, I have just a couple things to follow up with [SW: Sure.] that I'd love some clarification. So, one of the things you mentioned very briefly right at the end of our conversation was your sons' connection with Skidmore. You mentioned they felt very connected to college even though we did not attend here. SW: Right. IL: Could you elaborate on their connections with Skidmore? SW: Well, as you know, I live right in Saratoga Springs. They were born and raised here in Saratoga. And in the early days of Skidmore, both my husband, at that time, and I were affiliated with Skidmore, he in the counseling center and me– I was, at that time, teaching in the public schools, but was involved with bringing my kids to campus for various projects and activities that happened here on campus. It was a much smaller community back then than it is now, and so the kids, my children, felt very much as though Skidmore was a sort of home away from home. When I started teaching here full time, they, um, they use my office as a great after school drop off place, sometimes, to stop in on their way off to a soccer game, or practice, or a bike ride with some friends. And so, while they did not necessarily participate, um, educationally in the activities, they did- they did fully appreciate the community that Skidmore offered all of them, the faculty and staff that lived- that lived and worked here. They used the library regularly, they loved to the library, and, uh, you know, they had many friends whose parents were also involved at Skidmore, and so it was a sort of a mini community. So that's sort of what I meant, was I think Skidmore was an extension of– they felt as comfortable here on the Skidmore campus as I would downtown, or at the high school, or the other places that they were active in. IL: Wonderful, thank you. One of the things you mentioned is that your former husband worked at Skidmore. SW: He did. Yep. IL: Yeah, so, from my understanding from our last review you joined the working body of the Skidmore community later on. SW: Right, exactly. I came to Skidmore as a new bride, actually. My husband, at the time, he and I got married right after– I got married right out of college, actually. He got the first– the job as the first director of counseling center here at Skidmore. Skidmore didn't have a counseling center in 1971. They were about– they had just started to accept men. There was a clear need for a network for support for students. The student body was moving to the new campus. When I first came in 1971, my husband's office was in downtown, in the old– on the old campus. Many of the activities of course we're still here at the new– I called the new campus, the campus. And, so, I came, as a new bride. My husband was working at Skidmore and I was in graduate school. I was doing my graduate work at SUNI Albany. So, I did my graduate work and finished. After finishing my graduate work, I got a job teaching in the Saratoga Springs high school, and taught there, and was tenured there for the next six– five or six years. At that point I had two small children and did not go back to teach full-time. And by the mid 80s, the early 80s my children were two and five. They were starting to go off to school or school in kindergarten, and I was anxious to get back to the workforce. I had many friends here at Skidmore, through my husband, and I was invited to come and work at UWW, and then in the English Department. So, it was an interestingly slow transition to Skidmore for me. I started actually as a faculty wife, as an employee's wife, but then came on as a– as a full-time employee and faculty member. IL: Thank you for elaborating. SW: Sure. IL: There's several pieces of your comments I really want to touch on. SW: Yeah. IL: We're going to go back to a couple of the them. SW: Sure. IL: But first that I think is relevant– kind of in chronological order, working backwards, is the transition to a co-educational school for Skidmore. SW: Right. IL: You were here right as that was happening. [SW: Yeah, yes.] Was there a culture shift that was going on? SW: Yeah. IL: Could you help me understand what the campus atmosphere was like? SW: Yeah, yeah. It was– it was a huge culture shift. I came from my undergraduate school, Elmira College in western part of New York State, went through exactly the same transition when I was an undergraduate student. So when I started at Elmira it was in all women's college, when I graduated it was a co-educational institution, so in four years at had transition to a co-educational institution. When I got here to Skidmore, right after I had graduated from my undergraduate school, it was also in that exact same transition. So, both Elmira and Skidmore were probably transitioning to a co-educational institution at exactly the same time. And there was a huge cultural shift. I guess the funniest story that I can share with you which I think encapsulates exactly the problem– actually two small stories. The first was, I can always remember my husband coming home and saying, 'Well the men are in the counseling center all the time.' I said, 'Oh dear are they having a terrible time?' He said 'No, actually the problems are fairly soluble. And I said, 'What do you mean?' I said, 'I mean are they are they having major emotional problems?' He said 'No, no.' He said, 'The first problem is that there's no options except ballet in terms of physical education for them, and they were having difficulties explaining to the phys-ed department that they needed more options. And the second was that they couldn't get enough food. That the cafeteria was not serving them large enough portions. That they kept going back, and back, and back and that the cafeteria ladies were used to feeding women, you know young women, and not used to feeding eighteen-year-old boys.' So, he said, 'Once we get those two things straightened out, I think that the mental health of the entire community will probably be a whole lot better.' So that gives you a sense of sort, the small problems that could go in co-education, you know, provided or presented to the college. Obviously, dormitories and space, and those kinds of things. But really, they needed to think about their curriculum, they needed to think about their support services, and I think they've done a great job of doing that over the years. IL: Thank you. So, you mentioned, Elmira going co-ed, and being at Elmira. Could you help me understand what your time at Elmira was like? SW: Sure! I was– I came from a fairly– a very blue-collar working-class community in southern Connecticut. Going– I was the first member of my whole family to go to college. And so, going off to college for me was huge, and the idea in the early 1960s, for me to go off to college, to really have a completely different experience would be to go to a girl school, for me. I don't know why that I was convinced that that was an important thing, but somehow, I was convinced that that was a good thing to do. And so, I started applying applied to many of the women's institutions at the time, and I got into a lot of them. I selected Elmira not because it was the best. Because in retrospect, probably in terms of just in terms of academic caliber, it probably wasn't the strongest of the ones that I had gotten accepted into, but it was the one that was the farthest away from home. And so, I chose that. Because I what I needed to do at that moment, was to prove to myself that I could be a college student and live in an environment completely different than when I was used to. And so, I went to Elmira. It actually was a wonderful, wonderful choice for me. I met some, some fantastic faculty who have– who remained supportive of me for my entire career, and beyond. I met some lovely, lovely women who have remained friends my whole life, in fact just had a reunion with a couple of them, over 50 years of reunion with a bunch of them recently. I went junior year abroad, and so I went to the University of Leicester in England for an entire year, which was an amazing experience for me, and was– and it probably fed my latent desire to all– to travel, to see the world, which I have continued to feed throughout my entire life. So, Elmira was a wonderful experience for me. It prepared me well for graduate school. I went to SUNI Albany and got my degree there, and felt well prepared, and was very happy to be trained in the early 70s to be a teacher, and so I felt as though I had gotten a very good education, even though I think, the reasons I ended up– I initially went there were probably not the best. [Chuckles.] IL: You ended up being there, and then a transitional moment for Elmira. SW: Yeah, yeah it was– of course, anywhere you were. If you were in college in the late 1960s, you were in the midst of a huge revolution, cultural revolution in terms of, of identity and educational opportunities, and politics, and countercultural definitions. This was all so embedded in a college experience at the time. I mean, I started college in 1967, I was at Woodstock in 1969. I was in– I was at the University of Leicester in 1969 and '70, and then I graduated in 1971. So, it was right in the in the heat of all of the activities that were going on campuses across the country so, you couldn't avoid, it is great. IL: If you had to pick kind of a definitive moment of your college experience, what would it be? SW: Well, I think it was the opportunity to go abroad. That was– I mean Elmira is this small little sleeping community in western upstate New York. It doesn't necessarily provide the kinds of– even the simulations that Saratoga does. Saratoga Springs is a culturally rich environment beautiful, beautiful geography. Elmira is not that. Didn't have that kind of opportunity, both visually, geographically, and culturally. So, for me to go abroad and to study, and to be there for a year, was life changing for me. And that– I worked with some fantastic faculty at the university. I met several of them later on, after I finish my degree and have– and stayed in touch with many of them. Most of them are gone now, by now. IL: Could you help me understand the wonderful experience of being at Leicester? SW: Yeah, yup. It was– well it's– it's not– it's a red brick university, that's one of the quality characteristics. It's one of the universities that grew out of the push to enlarge the university system in Britain after the Second World War. It was well, well known for its English literature faculty. Many of the universities of Britain had a particular strength, and so if you were interested in X, Y, or Z you would think to look at, to go to those institutions. Leicester had a very strong English literature and culture department, and I, I was lucky enough to get accepted into that. And so, that to me was life changing. Their educational system, which is much different than United States, in which we took classes once a week, didn't have exams except at the end of the year, met in one on one tutorials with the faculty every week, so you were always had to be prepared, you always had to be ready to be able to speak what you had in your mind well face to face with a full professor, and then, and then prepare for an exam that you would have only at the end of the year. So, it was a very difficult, very different way of learning than I was used to here in the United States. And that taught me a lot about pedagogy, which I put to work when I came here to work at Skidmore. IL: Fantastic. If you could only pick a couple individuals who defined your time at Leicester, who would they be and why? SW: I think that the uh– I think that the Shakespeare professor was particularly wonderful. And I’m not going to remember his name, sorry. [IL: No worries.] I could've– I also took, I took an American history course. Because I was intrigued at the time to see how, how the British taught American history, and that professor also was absolutely fabulous. And showed me a way of looking at history in general, and history of my own country in relationship to Britain that I never had had been given before. So that was exceptionally fine. The third component– the third really important part of my experience at Leicester had really nothing much to do with my faculty as much as it had to do with two groups of students. One was a group of international students that we formed. There were six or seven of us. Two of us from United States, one from Australia, three from Germany, two from Japan, etc. So, we had this group of international students who were international students at Leicester at the time, all studying either in the foreign languages department, or in the history departments. And so, we ended up taking classes with each other and gathered in very informal friendship group throughout the year, because we were the– we were the foreigners, we were the outsiders. And it was– it's fairly small university and so they weren't a lot of us. We've stayed in contact with each other over almost– over almost 50 years now, so I just, in fact, two days ago spoke with the German student who friend of mine, and he's on his way to Japan to meet with Hiroshi, one of our other students. It has been over 50 years. So that group of students has were really influential and showing me how the rest of the world thought. How they think. How do other people in other parts of the world think. And again, that really informs that well how I teach. The other group of students that helped me a huge amount where the women in my dormitory. We lived in a hall, called College Hall, and we were– we ate together. It was part of the system. We would be at least once or twice a week we would eat together and have high tea together. We studied together, often. And again, we have stayed in close contact with each other over all these years. A group of us just had a reunion last year. And went I went back to Britain and saw them for the first time in almost 50 years. And we had a lovely time. Picked up right where we left off. [Chuckles.] IL: That's fantastic. SW: So those kinds of experience, both friend friendships, were as much– as much a influencing force on who I am as a, as a teacher and as a, as a person as my faculty were, and they were also quite wonderful. So. IL: Thank you for sharing. SW: Yep, sure. IL: In your time last year, did you travel elsewhere, were you mostly based there? SW: I did travel. I came at the end of August. Our term started in September. We studied until December, and then they have a big long break. During that break, I traveled a great deal. I visited German students in Germany, I went to Austria and Switzerland, and did some skiing and– I did a lot of traveling. And then, in the– after the break in May, that was after my exams were over, many of the foreign students went home. I had– I, luckily, had saved enough money and then I could actually stay for another couple of months. So, I stayed through August. So, I was gone almost twelve months, and during that time I traveled to Spain, and Italy, France and did more of the southern European traveling, and again met up with many of the students and friends that I had met during the year. I did, I did hike in April. I hiked the Lake District with a with one of my college friends, in Britain. I went to Edinburgh; I went to Glasgow I went to Wales. I did see a great deal of Britain, because it was easy. It's easy to do so because of the train, trains, and it was inexpensive if I had a student pass, I could get anywhere, and I backpacked the whole time. So, I stayed in hostels and it was really inexpensive. I could, I could get around easily under $5 a day. So. I was able to do that as well. IL: With being on campus and involved in student culture in Britain, you define some of the Elmira culture as having the counterculture movement super characteristic [SW: Right.] of the late 60s, early 70s. Was that something that [SW: No.] was distinct? SW: No, yeah. It wasn't– we did not see that as much. I did not see that, at least I don't remember. It's a long time ago. [Chuckles.] I don't remember that at all. And it was funny because, because I was gone in 1969, 1970, I kind of unplugged from the height of the activities that were going on in my country at the time, and I didn't– I was gone a full year from August to August, and that's, that was a long time. That's a lot of– a lot of events occurred during that year that I was not in the in, you know, in my country, to experience. In Britain, it was much less– I was, I was very involved in my local life, and did not necessarily, feel a sense of that counterculture movement at all. IL: So, you went to Woodstock, left for Britain– SW: I did. IL: Was away for a year, and then came back. SW: Exactly, exactly! In fact, I got– I went to Woodstock, and two and half weeks later I left for Britain. And when I got there, everybody at the university said, 'did you go to Woodstock?' And I said, 'I, I did.' And they could not believe it. They said, 'no.' I said 'yeah. I was there.' And I was. [Both laugh.] I was. So, that was– I kind of became sort of instant celebrity for a few weeks. [Laughs.] And then classes start, and then everyone was busy. IL: Was it like a story you told them to, kind of, share what that experience, since they were so interested? SW: Well, well yeah, they asked because it had just happened. I mean, literally just happened, and here's two Americans arriving on their university not, you know, two-and-a-half or three or three weeks after they watched all this on their, on their telly. And here we are, and my friend Jackie and I, Jackie was not at Woodstock, and I arrive at Leicester. And, you know, that's what they wanted to know. Well, what was it like? And so, all I can remember telling them was it was very muddy, 'cause it rained the entire time. I said it was very muddy, and there were lots and lots of people, and it was the most peaceful group of half, quarter million people I've ever seen in my life. Ever. So, you know, it was– of course the music was fabulous. And they wanted to hear did you here so-and-so, and did you hear so-and-so? And I– yep, yep, yep. IL: So, in learning about their culture, they also very– SW: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. IL: So then, when you got back to the US– SW: Yeah. IL: How had your perspective on Elmira, for example, or your life in the US changed? SW: Yeah, and it had changed a great deal. Really good question. You know, I– I realized how–I mean there was a part of me that realized, because I wanted– 'cause I decided to go as far away from home as I could, that staying at home was small. That there was something– it was loving, and wonderful, and I loved my hometown, and my family but there was something about it that was a little stifling for me. And– because nobody ever left. It was a kind of place where everybody was happy being right where they were, and that southern Connecticut was just fine. Just a fine place to be born, and raised, and work, and die. And I'm thinking, no, no I don't think so. Not for me. And so by going off to Elmira and then going to England, that way– it was like, it was like I lit a fire, and that's, as you can imagine, as you know as one of my former travel writing students, you know that I continue to constantly desire to see more and more of the world. This interview had to be postponed because I was in Africa just until a couple of weeks ago. So, I have continued to be just enthralled with the variety and the complexity and the beauty of this world. And that's certainly what Elmira and my experience at Leicester started way back when I didn't know, I mean, didn't know a thing. I was so naive, and so young and so inexperienced that I give– I gotta give myself credit for trying as much as I did even back then, 'cause I think I didn't know what I was doing at all but, it will worked out fine. IL: I'm glad. SW: Yep. IL: Could you kind of describe sort of an average day in your hometown? SW: Ah! An average day my hometown. Well, my hometown was a working class, pretty much exclusively– not exclusively. About 80% Italian, first generation Italian Roman Catholic blue-collar community. Most of the men went off to New Haven and worked as tradesmen or as factory workers. Almost– most of the moms stayed home and took care of their families. I lived in a small post-World War Two little house in a little development where all the houses looked about the same. I walked to school. I walked home for lunch. I walked to my high school. It was– it had a very old downtown center, which of course, because it's Connecticut, it had some pieces of early pre-revolutionary notes– old stone church and an old green and area. But, and there was an old neighborhood. But the large portion of my day was spent in these kind of post-World War Two developments of young families. There were in every house in my neighborhood there was two to four children. And when you– when we walked to school, the whole street was filled with kids. When you walked home, it filled with children. You went home, you put your play clothes on, and you went outside. And you were in the neighborhood playing with friends until your mom called you for dinner, and dinner, homework, and in bed, and then off to school again. My parents owned a little tiny cottage on the shores of Long Island Sound in the town next to where I was, where I grew up, called Branford, and in the summers we would go there. So, I would unplug from this kind of intense, you know, kind of dense family community, kid-oriented, to a much more relaxed, out– get more or less about doors community, where I stayed all summer, with a whole group of families and friends that were not part of the group of neighbors that I grew up with. But I stayed– we stayed in that community. My sister and I grew up in East Haven, we both went to East Haven high school, graduated. My sister actually bought my parents' house when they graduated, and so she stayed there her whole life. She stayed there her life. She never, again, she never left. And that's was not at all atypical. She was friends with all of her high school friends. I was not. I mean, I didn't see my high school friends much 'cause I never– never was home again. And we had different– we had different interests. They were happy to be where they were, and I was not. You know, I wanted to see more. But, I mean, it was it was a lovely childhood. It was lots of fun, and lots of activities. I remember learning to roller-skate on the streets, and interesting things that people can't even imagine. That you rake your leaves. All the families would rake their leaves into the– into the edge of the street, and then you'd burn them. Which of course, God forbid you can't– but never do that now, and that you'd come home, and you'd play in the leaves, and they'd be these little fires in these little embers, and it would get dark and you can remember seeing the embers along the side of the road, and you come in and you smell like, like leaf smoke. These are, you know, these wonderful memories that kids don't have anymore. It's just not a– it's a different life, it's a different environment. But kids have other wonderful things to think about now too, right, so. IL: Do you– is there, kind of, one memorable meal from your childhood you could tell me about? SW: Well, I’m a– I'm from– my grandparents on my mother's side were both Swedish. They were first– they were born in Sweden, came as younger, young people, both my grandfather and my grandmother. My grandmother was a wonderful cook. I can always remember my grandmother making a roast– and they didn't have very much. They were– they had large family, not very much money, and we would go over to my grandparents' house on Sundays sometime, or certainly on a holiday. So, if it was a holiday like, I don't know, Easter, or Christmas, or something, she would make a roast pork. Some kind of a piece of large piece of meat. And there'd be hundreds of grandchildren, seems to me, there wasn't hundreds, but there was a lot of grandchildren, lots of children around. And she would be cooking and baking, and there'd be potatoes and, and she would make– always have– so this, this big piece of meat would come out and I will be sitting in my grandfather would cut it up, he was a carpenter. He built a lot of Yale University in his, in his active years as a carpenter. So, he would take the trolley from Branford, his hometown, to New Haven, work on the buildings at Yale, and then come home again. So, he always remembered– I remember as a child him telling me– we'd take the bus into New Haven, and he'd say, 'you see that? I built that, I built that archer, or I–’ ‘cause he built all the woodwork, he did all the woodwork. Anyway, so, we were at this, at this– he was cutting up the meat, and everybody got a piece of this meat, and then we had roast potatoes and vegetables, etc. And I looked at my grandmother's plate, and always, this was always the case, on my grandmother's plate were all the bones. Just the bones. And I said, 'Grandma, you don't have any meat.' She said, 'Oh, I don't want any of the meat.' She said, 'This is the best part.' And she would pick up and spend the whole meal just nibbling, and sucking, and chewing off all of the good parts of the bones. Now, I can– you know, as a child, I kept thinking, well she just doesn't want to give– she wants to make sure that everybody get some meat, and so she's giving it all to all the children, and she's just being generous. But I think she was right. I actually think she was right, that probably that was really delicious, all of the good roasted bones. The other, other thing that I always remember– my grandmother was really the center of my meal remembrance. My mother was not a very good cook at all, and once I got to be a teenager, I ended up doing a lot of the cooking in my house 'cause my mother really was not, did not like to cook. So many, many of my memorable meals were at my grandmother's. Whenever you walked into my grandmother's house day or night, 8:00 o'clock in the morning, 10:00 o'clock at night, there was always a big pot of coffee perking on her stove. Didn't matter what time it was, it was always hot. and just perking. Hear that little blurp, blurp, and the whole house smelled of coffee. And the other thing you'd always smell is Swedish coffee cakes. She would bake Swedish coffee cakes every morning, and you could smell the cardamom, and the other in– clove, which you put in the coffee cakes, and so there was always, always coffee and always coffee cake in her house, whenever you walked in the house it didn't matter. And you, and you– and Grandma would always let us, the grandchildren, even as little as we were, taste a little sip of coffee, we could taste some. So that was always exciting. IL: Sounds really lovely to have that– to know that you could go and get some coffee. SW: Yes. Grandma was– she always had coffee going, and there was always a coffee cake that she had just taken out of the oven. She was a great cook, and she taught me how to cook. She was the one that taught me how to cook. I remember as I was in college, I went and visited her, and knew or realize that she was getting very old, and so I sat down and asked her to give me her recipes, some of her recipes. She of course, she never measured anything. And I said, 'Well Grandma, show me how you make the rice pudding.' She'd say, 'okay,' and then she would sit there, and she would say, 'Well first you take some rice.' And I said, 'Well, how much rice?' 'You know, enough.' [Laughing] And I say, 'This isn't going to work.' I said, 'I'll tell you what, you make the rice pudding, and let me watch you, and then I'll be able to figure it out.' So as she was making it, I would make her– I would ask her to stop, just before she would pour the milk in, or pour the rice in, or pour the seasoning in, and measure it. I would measure it because she didn't– it would be this is how much it is, whatever it was. I said, 'Okay,' and so I would measure it and then write it all down. I had to cut some of the recipes still. IL: Do you have a favorite recipe you made? SW: I like her rice pudding. That's what we– she always made the best rice pudding. And it's– again, that they were very poor, and so they used everything up. So rice, if you made rice, you always made rice pudding with it. And she would make oatmeal, oatmeal cookies because she'd make oatmeal or porridge for the, all the kids and then whatever was left she would make something. She would make delicious dumplings. She was a good dumpling maker. So these are some of the things I remember. Easy, inexpensive meals. IL: It– food's always a really wonderful, I think, part of family life generally. SW: Yes, yeah. IL: Is there kind of a, memorable meal you've had with your kids since then? SW: My own kids. Well, you know, we– yeah. I, I like to cook. I'm, I very much like to cook. And because I had two sons, and no daughters, I just taught them how to cook this, because why not? And they were interested. So, and they are now in their 40s, and so. One of the things I had– one of my sons, when he was seven, after having done a research paper at elementary school or kindergarten about animals, you know, and realizing that people ate animals, he decided he was going to be a vegetarian, at age eight, or so. And I said, 'That's fine, you know, that's fine. If that's what you want, and then we'll do.' Then the other son, he was like, you know, 'No I’m not going to do that.' So, I was making– I tried to make a vegetarian option for, for my– for Josh, the younger one. The problem was of course, is he didn't like vegetables. [IL laughs.] So, I said, 'Sweetie, if you're going to be a vegetarian you have to eat vegetables, and you have to figure out how to get some protein.' So, he said, 'Well, I like pasta.' So, I mean– and he liked peanut butter. So, there were many years, I think, in his life where he subsisted on pasta with tomato sauce, which had some vegetables, and peanut butter sandwiches. He's now, you know, six-two, and you know, is perfectly well, well-endowed in terms of a healthy strong man, and his– I think one of our favorite meals was we used to make homemade pasta. And with a with a roller, with a machine hand-cranked pasta rolling machine, and he was, got very good at– now he has twin seven-year-olds, little girls, and he, every month, every Sunday they make homemade pasta together. So, it's carried on several, you know, several generations now, homemade pasta which is one of the twins' favorite meals. And pizza, lots of pizza. They love pizza, which of course Josh makes from scratch, so. So, that kind of shaped our, our meals a lot. IL: Meals are always prepared in kitchens. That's always something– I found now, being in college that that's very important [SW: Yeah.] space sometimes. So, with your home, would you define the kitchen– how, how would you define your kitchen? SW: Yeah, it's the center of our house. And still is, even without the kids there, still the center of our house. When I entertain, we all end up in the kitchen, for some reason, because I have a big kitchen, I have a cooking and working kitchen, 'cause I like to cook, and I liked other people to be in my kitchen with me when I'm working and cooking. My kitchen is also an open space into a family room. So, there's a, a couch and a TV, and bookcases, and things to read and do as well as the kitchen area which is kitchen-y. So, it's a wing of my house that's probably the most used. My kids, when we did– my house is a 1791 farmhouse. This is this old farmhouse. When we first bought it, the kitchen was kind of an old Victorian 19th century add-on to the original revolutionary-time farmhouse, and it was not in very good shape. So, we tore it down very soon after we bought the house and built this bigger space, and in that space we made the kitchen area, but we made it because we knew that we wanted, also, the whole family to be part of it. So we made this larger space for the family living. And when the children were small, it was their play area. There was nothing in there with a big rug, and all their toys, and so that they could play, we could talk, I could cook, they could come over and help me cook, or go back and play. So, it was a good space for when they were younger. When they got older, and moved in my books, and a TV, and things like that so we could use it in that way as well. So, it's a big part of my– it's still a big part of my– big heart of, the heart of my house. So you've been to the house, so you, you remember what it was like. It's a– it's a working, it's a good working kitchen. IL: It's very beautiful. SW: Oh, thanks. [Chuckles.] IL: So, I'm thinking that about, your house that you very much made your own, making the kitchen the way you want it. SW: Right. IL: That's– How would you say that's defined your experience in Saratoga? SW: Yeah. That's a really good question because in 1971, we'll circle back to my graduating from Elmira, and getting married, and my then-newly-minted husband saying, 'I just got this job at Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs. We're going to move– we have to move there.' And I then change my graduate work to SUNI Albany, rather than other places. And I came up here, and Saratoga in 1971 was not a very attractive city. Skidmore was struggling. It was just starting to try to get its feet on the ground, in terms of co-education. It was changing its location from the old campus to the new campus. It was, it was struggling, it was. And the city itself was really struggling. It was very depressed, and depressing. I just got here and looked around and said, 'Oh my gosh. I really have to love this man to come and live here [laughs] because I don't know about this place.' And you know it– and it was, it was difficult at first because it was a difficult place, but within a year we made wonderful friends. We lived in several houses in the community before we moved to the farmhouse that I currently living now. I loved working in the high school. I met wonderful community leaders and friends, and other teachers. My graduate work was excellent at SUNI Albany, and I ended up lot starting to love the upstate New York area. I got to know the Adirondacks, so I got to understand lake environments, 'cause I was so used to being near the ocean that I missed the saltwater. I missed the ocean. And the lakes seemed to be not an adequate substitute. But in fact, it– they were. And I learned to really love this area. And Saratoga, at that time, was then beginning to really open up, and grow. It was a time when opportunities to do interesting things within the community were available as well. If you were young, and energetic, and had ideas, people were around that said, 'Well let's try it,' because there was– We needed to do something. So, I met a group of women, both faculty wives and community women. We did things like starting the gifted and talented program out of the high school in elementary school. We worked on art festivals where we took all of the abandoned, that, not abandoned, the for lease, vacant storefronts on Broadway, and there were many, if you can imagine. You think about Broadway now, it's absolutely chockablock with wonderful opportunities for businesses. There were places in blocks of Saratoga, of Broadway that were empty. That these businesses were just empty. And we put together things like an arts festival where high school kids could come in, and we would, we would display their artwork. We would have– we would bring in local artists to do demonstrations and classes. We started working with Historical Society. So, there was stuff that we could do, that young– if we were young and had energy, they were willing to have us do, and we did. And so that was lovely, and it was a way of, again, validating my interests and my energies, and my children could see their community really growing. And it was a lovely place to live. I mean, they're just nice people here. Just, just really nice people in this community, both here at Skidmore as well as in the, in the town itself. IL: Is there any particular project in town that you're proud of? SW: Well, I– you know, I'm very proud of the– I worked, early days, with the, with the gifted and talented program. Phyllis Aldridge, a wonderful friend who's still alive, still here in town, organized this project where we were able to take, present after school opportunities for talented young students in many of the elementary schools, and we would meet at the library, the library which was downtown, and we would do courses. I did a poetry writing course, I did a journal writing course. There was art classes, there were music classes. That I'm very proud of. We did, I did a journalism course where we put together a newspaper. We visited the Saratogian which was the local newspaper, is the local newspaper, and brought all the kids there. So this is the kind of thing that I'm very proud of, and it's still going. That, that's great. That kind of grassroots effort, I think, is so, so satisfying. And the town is big, much, much larger now and much more complex, but still, I think, it still has that kind of heart of wanting to do the best for its citizens. IL: That's fantastic, thank you for describing that. I'm– have covered most of what I have on my list here. SW: Sure. IL: But I have one question that kind of jumps a little bit away from what we were discussing. SW: Sure, yeah, yeah. IL: When did you first realize you liked writing? SW: Ah! That's a great question. I want to make sure I'm very honest and clear about this, I'm going to think. Well, I was always a reader. So that's first, first and foremost. And I, as you know, and as I've told my, all of my writing students, you can't be a good writer and less you're a good reader. You have to read because the word on the page becomes your models, and becomes your image– the images and the, and the cadences of the other writers as they write on the page become the voices in your head, and that's really, really terrific. So, I was always an avid, avid reader. I think that I never thought of myself as a writer primarily because it never was ever encouraged. It was again, if you think back, I've lived in this kind of community where it was not that sort of writing. Oh, you know, that's, that's fancy stuff, you know, that's writing is fancy stuff. I think I started writing in elementary school because I got a diary, for a gift, like a Christmas gift or something, or birthday present, and I, and I got a pen pal. And so, the idea of having a pen pal in another city– I got two pen pals when I was little girl, one was in another city in New England, someplace. I guess one of my teachers hooked us, you know, hooked the students up with a pen pal, and another was a pen pal in India. Don't ask me how I got that pen pal in India, but I got one, and I always remember loving to write letters to her and getting her letters back 'cause the stamps were so fabulous. The stamps were the best. And the paper felt so different than the paper that I had in the United States. So, those experiences of having a pen pal and having a diary actually probably were the things that started me off on writing, for myself. When I started teaching, I was always involved in, in student newspapers. Forever. From elementary school, to junior high school, to high school, to when I was in college, I was always on the newspaper staff. So, when I started teaching, although I wasn't a writing teacher, I was always teaching all the optional experiences of either journalism or being the newspaper club advisor. So that pushed me in that direction. As I started to do that, I realized that no one was actually teaching these kids how to write at all. It was just by osmosis that they were writing. That they were in English class, but writing wasn't really what was described. When I went to graduate school, I spent a lot of time learning pedagogy around, or, or theory around writing. Writing theory. How does– how do people think about writing, and how do they plant, how do they train themselves to be writers. Which is– what are some strategies. And that turned into some really interesting projects that I did with my high school students. That's what got me started in working with college students. So it was a kind of gradual process, both for me, and then through my early teaching experience to, to the needs of the Skidmore community, and I– because I like working with international students, I started working with international students first with my writing has a tutor, and then transitioned into teaching, working with the larger campus community with writing. IL: Thank you for sharing. I'm– I have a follow-up question with that. You mentioned that your community was fairly dismissive of an interest in writing. SW: Well, yeah. It was– I didn't– I don't remember in my high school, I'm thinking about my high school, my own high school, I don't remember, I mean, I think– the teachers that I remember encouraging me to, to love language was my Latin teacher. My Latin teacher was the person who really inspired me to love language. My English teachers were great, and I remember writing, and they all said, 'That's great, that's great,' but I don't think anybody ever gave me any actual constructive criticism. I don't think anybody sat down with me and said, 'You know, you could make this better.' It was always like, 'It's fine, it's good.' I was an A student, I was always. But I thought, well that doesn't help me. That isn't helping me. If I want to get better, you're just telling me that this is okay, and I'm done. And so, that's what I meant. I didn't– I don't, I don't remember my high school as being a place where creative writing, and in writing in general was encouraged. I could, I could be missing 'cause it was 100 years ago, so, I don't know. [Laughs.] But I'm remembering it mostly as a, something, a love that was nurtured mostly inside of me, and not from an external source until I started working with other students. Then I realized, oh I really love this. IL: Thank you. But, I– Before we kind of wrapped things up, [SW: Yep.] is there anything you'd like to share? Things that have come up in this interview? SW: When you have– you know, you know more about me than, [laughs] than anybody in Saratoga Springs right now! No, it's been a pleasure, actually a pleasure, Isabel talking with you about both my career at Skidmore and my life in Saratoga, and my life as a, as a youngster, and how I got to where I am. And it was, it's actually great fun to think about this because right before I came in here for, to have our conversation, I was FaceTiming with one of my children and my grandchildren, and as I was describing some of these stories I was telling you, I was thinking of them and saying, 'I should tell these stories to these kids. These kids don't know any of these stories.' And they need to know them, I think. So that's– you've peaked my interest ant gotten me excited about sharing some of this with, with them as well. IL: Well I'm so glad, and thank you so much for sharing this with me. SW: You're welcome. IL: It's been an honor and a privilege. SW: My pleasure, and I hope your project in this larger project continues to go as well as, as it seems to be going. IL: Thank you very much. SW: Okay, thank you. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Oral history interview Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) Interview 1 – 54:04 Interview 2 – 54:03 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 128 kbit/s Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview November 23, 2019 interview 00:00:00 Header 00:01:55 University Without Walls 00:03:20 University Without Walls prison program 00:05:20 "it changed lives" 00:06:40 Master's program at Skidmore 00:07:24 Master's program closed, and Welter started full-time at the Skidmore English Department 00:08:11 Last ten years of Welter's career 00:09:23 Question on University Without Walls (UWW) 00:13:34 Welter's job with UWW 00:14:09 UWW national forum 00:14:58 Prison program set-up 00:16:36 How Welter became involved in the prison program. 00:18:33 "They were like sponges." 00:19:52 "As close to normal as we could create" for the prison program. 00:20:12 Writing a monograph on behavior, she never felt in danger. 00:23:00 "game plan or guidebook" 00:23:42 Amazing students, hundreds positively impacted by the program. 00:25:12 "All you need to do is let him speak" [on a student of the prison program]. 00:26:18 Master of Liberal Studies (MLS) program 00:28:16 Welter hired as an advisor. 00:30:01 Why the MLS program closed. 00:30:49 On-campus teaching 00:32:00 Not ready to retire, travel writing course. 00:33:40 "Since retirement" 00:34:40 Teaching in China 00:38:26 Literary magazine in China 00:40:00 Welter wanted to go to China because of international Chinese students at Skidmore. 00:41:40 Teaching EN 103 00:42:39 Welter likes "working with students who are challenged." 00:44:30 On the discipline of writing. 00:46:33 "Every student can do this." 00:47:51 Changing technology, writing incredibly impacted. 00:50:48 Technology added ease and responsibility. 00:52:25 Her professional trajectory reflection and in connection with Skidmore philosophy. 00:53:32 How Welter's children think of Skidmore. 00:54:02 END February 5, 2020 interview 00:00:00 Header 00:00:24 Summary of previous interview. 00:01:14 Sons' connection with Skidmore. 00:03:12 Came to Skidmore "as a new bride." 00:04:36 Teaching in the Saratoga Springs High School. 00:05:04 "[A]nxious to get back to the workforce." 00:06:00 Going co-educational, Skidmore and Elmira. 00:08:25 Choosing Elmira. 00:11:27 Cultural revolution in the 1960s. 00:12:18 Going abroad. 00:13:15 University of Leicester. 00:16:06 International students at Leicester. 00:17:37 Women in her dormitory. 00:18:46 Traveling while studying abroad. 00:20:53 Missing events in 1969-70. 00:21:56 Experience with Woodstock. 00:23:39 Returning to the US and "staying at home was small." 00:24:37 "...lit a fire" of interest in seeing the world. 00:25:54 Talking about hometown and childhood. 00:30:14 Her maternal grandparents, eating a meal at their house. 00:32:58 Grandmother's house. 00:34:17 Cooking with her grandmother. 00:36:17 Cooking with her sons. 00:38:44 The kitchen is the center of her house. 00:41:00 Coming to Saratoga and being involved with happenings in town. 00:45:15 The gifted and talented program. 00:46:57 How Sandy's love of writing grew. 00:52:49 Closing comments. 00:54:03 END Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Isabel M.R. Long Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 7/2/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews with Sandra "Sandy" Welter Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 5, 2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Skidmore College Language A language of the resource Eng Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sandy Welter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Isabel M.R. Long Description An account of the resource This life history interview shares the story of Sandra "Sandy" Welter, who worked as director of University Without Wall (UWW) prison program, administrator for the Master of Arts and Liberal Studies (MALS), and English professor at Skidmore College from the early 80s, until she retired in 2017. After a childhood in in East Haven, Connecticut and studies at Elmira College that included a year abroad at Leicester University (UK), Sandy came to Saratoga Springs in the early 70s as a Skidmore College spouse, and worked at Saratoga High School. When teaching in and advising students of the UWW prison program, Sandy supported non-traditional, non-residential graduate and undergraduate students and taught EN 103 (Writing Seminar) for many years. She ended her tenure at Skidmore teaching a travel-writing course, reflecting her own love for travel. https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/825f37bc4dff08106aa7950383db3a33.jpg f81e9e7a2dad51812add01bdbe36f540 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/284769a83d0a17972911fa5b9b217d0b.m4a 465171a6322e81f9b02c1e4fc888a90a https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/724ff6655787aefe8f48aed07a0d4a9c.m4a 1549bb5d751b9315ecd569ec7c45ddc0 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/01f584a9570f9cd3768a28587239732d.txt 3d17847ec511800f3a775e8529ea62ff Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcript 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 11, 2020 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/8867a37639625ca9caf41650e8d4894d.txt a0f8498804e6ff584a66b38160403e96 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcript 2 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 12, 2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Iona Herriott Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed George Koshuta Location The location of the interview Skidmore College (Zoom) Saratoga Springs, New York (Zoom) Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Zoom Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Iona Herrriott Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 12/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Life History of George Koshuta Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Iona Herriott Description An account of the resource a life history of George Koshuta that reflects on his experiences as a human being, an athlete, an observer of political history, and a banker. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Iona Herriott Subject The topic of the resource George Koshuta Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saratoga Senior Center and George Koshuta Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Podcast, audio/ video Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context family, observations of people, advice Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant His life Date Created Date of creation of the resource. Nov. 11 & 12 , 2020 Access Rights Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies. Iona Herriott Skidmore College License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. Iona Herriott Skidmore College Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Iona Herriott Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 11, 2020 November 12, 2020 oral history fall 2020 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/748554e93a20a2c92cf3b21a9dfba295.png 4913b70da521bd9c0072cdee7b2152ec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dora Daley https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/4dd06166e4e45cf7afed7dbb313f5a76.mp3 27d5f2ba820b87c7eb64ee444859a8af https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/bfb881fa70c9843716140ed8b872531c.mp3 86ef23ce24c783fa402d5fcd4d31bab9 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/d9eb2795d37e727f80b23ec32338b447.pdf 47e25a35b5e2dea45a1d84dd936edbb1 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/1d3049984c6f7c8be345c4f28661637b.pdf 44d424a573dddf552f141de620f16d61 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/10cfb0c43b48723d4dc861b03c41508f.pdf 7570344b29b17da9f088284b63e9b1b9 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/4e0a60a9553c61ed801200073a0cecb8.pdf bef3040bab495d4811821378145c0b54 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview James Eason, Lois Celeste Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dora Daley Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Zoom meeting Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:12:84 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College (Zoom), Saratoga Springs (Zoom) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Attached Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Attached Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. James Eason Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 11/18/20 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dora Daley Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 30, 2020 November 14, 2020 Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource James Eason Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource James Eason Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Mp4 Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Abstract A summary of the resource. This is a interview with Dora Daley through the Saratoga Springs Senior Center about her life spanning from childhood to recent years. Description An account of the resource Dora Daley is a lifetime resident of Saratoga County. In this interview, she describes how In her youth she worked at a newspaper and as a young adult she worked at the paper mill in Mechanicsville. She left work to raise her children. Dora has then surrounded herself with a large, close, and caring family. oral history fall 2020 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/92637a302d763b7aca4b34756fca4fb4.png b5c1ab1a581c3576b1cbdc4963900a41 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/de5dfa3e5054ca3d727696343078fc4c.mp3 49469dba0c1a4932facb2fef9a1febf2 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/4f734966b92b1f0d61fad28ac159e5c4.pdf 56077aba05c538b94d503f382d438d1c https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/115566a603ddb65e7b7cc090ce97d2be.pdf 8e09d0a66766973b790704c32d9f6634 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sophia Spelman Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Sophia Spelman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Herta Spencer Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY (via Zoom) & Saratoga Springs, NY (via Zoom) Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 01:09:54 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 13/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Herta Spencer Language A language of the resource English (en) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Herta Spencer Sophia Spelman Lois Celeste Nursing Home Staff Member Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sophia Spelman Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 27, 2020 Description An account of the resource This interview was conducted by a student in Skidmore College’s oral history class and is part of the Saratoga Senior Center project, “Preserving Our Past.” Herta Spencer—originally from Austria—has lived in New York City, New Jersey, Switzerland, Connecticut, and the Capital Region of New York State. In this interview she recounts fleeing Nazi-occupied Austria, attending college and medical school, and working as a psychiatrist during the mid-twentieth century. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Date Created Date of creation of the resource. November 29, 2020 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/b962768874556c2de708c2ba9dc8265e.m4a d46b84b2b2df6cadbe13ffa146eaf136 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/79930eb0c641e7ba0a8c8b2fda1ade4c.pdf fdc46015e6acd5e2f16a50df38aec497 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/59213eb0ac9ef7a29e199eb939664ceb.pdf ba2ebbf2c35e87925a93188eb2000991 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Justin Rizzi Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Johann Miller Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY (Zoom), and Milton, NY (Zoom) Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Justin Rizzi Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 56:44 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Johann Miller Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Justin Rizzi Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 26, 2020 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource In this interview, recording by a student in the Fall 2020 oral history class, as part of the project titled "Preserving Our Past," Capital Region resident Johann Miller describes her life, from leaving her childhood home at 18 to attending Woodstock with her future husband. Language A language of the resource English (en) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Justin Rizzi Johann Miller Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Created Date of creation of the resource. December 4, 2020 fall 2020 oral history oral history fall 2020 saratoga senior center https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/958441f436c8d73d779bd6a60997213a.jpg 143c139f1e48aa7185ae2dc4a739a6ca https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/516730e0f7f77e0b09b15ee024d501c4.m4a 503aedc03c87c750272724526b7bdb4a https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/410dc76737a349cc3b55d44b0fc7f6c6.m4a 69cb76297528d5b00b219bf1c00280ff https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/8205096cf774cf5ba82bb170968ceb6c.m4a 962843fc1926ebfecb00979311834fb3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Claire Fink Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Odette Ireland Location The location of the interview Skidmore College and Saratoga Senior Center [Zoom] Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2 Hours Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Claire Fink Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Odette Ireland Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 6, 2020 Description An account of the resource In this oral history , Ms. Odette Ireland recalls memories including the time during World War II her home was occupied by French soldiers, when she first met her husband, and raising a family. Language A language of the resource English (EN) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Claire Fink Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Claire Fink, Odette Ireland and Elayne Ireland Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Skidmore. 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Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Cooper Murphy, Skidmore Senior Memory Project Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lou Schneider Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Saratoga Springs, NY, 12866 and Saratoga Senior Center 5 Williams St, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 (Zoom) Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Cooper Murphy Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 18/11/2020 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:55:17 and 00:23:48 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound First Transcription of Lou Schneider CM: Today is 10/26/2020 time is 12:55 pm I am the interviewer CM would you like to introduce yourself. Lou Schneider: My name is Lou Schneider, I am 89 born 4/17/1931. What else can I say? CM: That’s about it. Okay so are you okay with this information being stored or shared through the public domain and in Skidmore Saratoga memorial project. LS: No problem. CM: Okay, and let's get started shall we. Okay, first question is, where did you live as a kid. LS: Wander what I’m sorry louder. CM: Where did you live as a kid. LS: Brooklyn, New York. That's where I was born. CM: And what was your family like LS: Well family. I'm the first generation in the United States. My father came from Lithuania, my mother from Poland. CM: Did you have any siblings. LS: I have a younger sister three years younger than me. CM: Did you guys go to the same school LS: Yes, Lafayette high school in Brooklyn New York CM: And how're classes for that. LS: Alone one what. I'm sorry. CM: Sorry, did you have of what we're teachers like back then. LS: I still didn't catch the question, I'm sorry. CM: It's perfectly fine. What were teachers like back at your middle school? LS: What was it like CM: Yeah. LS: Well, I'm being born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. Is uh my stomping ground was Coney Island spent a lot of time, they're. Doing a lot of things. As I was growing up at the age of eight. We used to play had some friends. We used to play chess Pinochle and hearts. CM: And did any of those become hobbies that you did in the future. LS: Hobbies? CM: Hobbies. Yeah. What were your hobbies? LS: Yeah, the only the only hobby. I really had was reading. I enjoy, you know, books, a lot of reading. And just living the good life in Brooklyn, New York, and stomping ground in Coney Island. CM: Sounds fun. Did you have a specific genre that you really liked…Or a topic? LS: Or what? CM: Book. Did you have a topic of a book that you really liked to read about LS: No, I read on. Anything I can get my hands on. But I gravitated more towards mysteries than anything else. CM: Cool. Did you have a favorite type of music as a kid? LS: Did I have a what CM: Did you have a favorite type of music like a type of band or LS: Type of anything. No, really. Enjoyed own music. Yeah. Gravitated a little towards jazz, but that's about it. CM: Did you have a favorite holiday? LS: Favorite what CM: Holiday LS: Any day. I didn't have to go to school with was a holiday to me. CM: That's fair enough. LS: I was not. I was not one of the best students available at the time as growing up as I got older, I want. I want to see college. I got a degree in chemical engineering. So just settle down a bit. CM: Uh, did you have any pets as a kid? LS: Did you ask your question. CM: Yeah, sorry, it looks like our connections, a bit iffy. But, um, Yes. I said, did you have any pets as a kid. LS: No. No, I'll no pets went up by. Those in Brooklyn and a three bed in a three-bedroom apartment. She used to sleep in the bedroom with my folks. I used to sleep in a roll away cot in the living room. Which made it interesting. CM: So you mentioned how you went to community college and we've talked about your. Elementary School. But do you know, do you remember where you went to high school. LS: Yes, Lafayette High School in Brooklyn New York, and I admit though I really weren’t a good student never took any interest in it until I grew up. CM: And I know that you're a veteran. Can you tell me which war he fought in if not wars? LS: Korea I was very fortunate during the Korean War. I was stationed in Washington, DC. I work for the Army prosthetics research lab we did research on different types of materials artificial limbs. And it was interesting. So the work with amputees almost all my life at the time. CM: Uh, did you ever see any combat. During your time there? LS: None at all, no. CM: So you have worked with amputees and just make sure I'm getting this right. And you developed different materials for prosthetics and stuff like this. LS: Right. CM: This might be a very specific question, but did you ever have a specific type of, I guess, limb that you were more of an expert about making a prosthetic about? LS: No, not really. CM: Just all over everywhere? Nice. LS: Yeah. CM: How long did you serve for LS: Well, actually I was in for two years spent a year and a half and Walter Reed as I send a prosthetic sweet. I was… CM: I'm sorry you cut out on my end. Could you say that again? LS: I said, well, I lived off base with my wife. So, All I had to do is come in for inspections every Wednesday and that's about it. I did my work at the prosthetic research lab, you know, work on with different types of materials. Developing them for the prosthetic. Was I was in a medical or even though I was a chemical engineer that was what the army did. CM: That's pretty interesting. And you mentioned that you were married. When did you get married? LS: Married in 1953. We were married now 67 years. CM: Congratulations. LS: Thank you. Maybe you should congratulate her instead. Both: (laugh) CM: Um, so did you have any kids well during those two years. Or was after you. You uh left the war. LS: Oh yeah I have three children. My daughter, the oldest was born in Walter Reed. In December, just before I got out of the army. I got out in February, and the other two my oldest son was born in Newton Massachusetts and the younger one was born in Nassau County, West Burry. CM: Did you move around a lot while being in the army or after the army? LS: No didn't move, but it's spent a year and a half at Walter Reed so. Which was to me. Very good. Good adventure. Really enjoyed that. CM: Do you have any fond memories of the time one years in our watery? LS: But that's, that's hard to say. I enjoy it almost every day live door post was married at the time. So it was interesting working at Walter Reed. The only thing that actually really bothered me. Was these burns. You know, little kids getting burned or something. And you had to treat them so. That that hurt more than anything else, amputees didn't bother me. CM: So you worked with all ages? LS: Pardon? CM: You worked with all age groups. Not just like older people you worked with even children as well. LS: Oh, no. We work with anyone that had a problem as an amputee. You know, we would then with the prosthesis. Get the right match. In fact, any of these soldiers that used to have a hook. We gave an actual. Hand and we had gloves that fit over it. That was just look like skin. And we would color it to the person's coloring, you know if you put one hand up and you have one hand down the one that's up is like a different color was the blood rushes down to the other one. Was interesting is interesting matching it up. CM: Very, fascinating actually. So you said that after you left you still worked on prosthetics? LS: What were you saying? CM: I was saying that after you left the army, you still worked with prosthetics. Correct. LS: No. When I left the army. As a chemical engineer worked in the chemical fields were mainly in plastic companies. My forte was plastics at the time. CM: Uh. oh. Okay, so were. You said what you were born in 1989 was that? LS: No born 1931 CM: Someone gave me the wrong information. CM: You are alive during World War II? Correct? LS: Was I what I'm sorry. CM: You were alive during World War II? Correct? LS: No. I was alive during the World War II, yes. CM: But never fought? LS: Well I was born in 1931. WWII was 41-42 era later. I never got involved with that. Just did the Korean situation. CM: Got it. Uh, you were around when the TV became a thing in the microwave as well. Do you remember that at all impacting your life, those technological developments? LS: Really No really, you know, I was too young. And I think at that time. CM: Uh, did you ever have a favorite president? LS: any have what? CM: I'm sorry. I'll repeat that again. Did you ever have a favorite president when you're alive, like someone you really rooted for LS: Well, when I was born, FDR was president and he's really only one that I grew up with. And of course, it was Truman and Eisenhower. They came later. CM: Let's see. So did you ever go on any trips like family trips, when after, you know, Vietnam, or even? My bad after the Korean War? Or even with your family back when you were younger. LS: Oh yeah, we used to go. Spent a lot of time in the Long Beach and Long Island. We used to rent a little a house there that it was that was good memories at that time. Oh, you're on the beach. He. Well, Everybody takes care you and it was enjoyable. CM: Sounds like a nice community. LS: Yeah, yeah, we can. We try to do things as a family, my father. Is from Lithuania. So I'm first generation. My mother's from Poland. So in fact, at that time I used to speak a lot of Yiddish and some Hebrew, not much anymore. As I was growing up, they learned English with me. So we always spoke English so happy today they became fluent in that time. My father live to 97 CM: And you mentioned that you speak Hebrew? Can I ask what religion you believe in if any at all? LS: Sorry, I didn't catch that. CM: I was just asking what religion you would consider yourself. LS: Oh. Jewish I’m Jewish. CM: Cool. LS: Yeah Hebrew would be the religion really CM: Yeah……..So you got any grandkids now or still just your kids? LS: Well, I got eight grandchildren and one great-grandson. Five girls and three boys the grandchildren and the great is a little boy. Who is now three CM: Do you ever have. Like big family gatherings where everybody comes back together. LS: Yeah, we used to lay back, but not anymore. It's…You know with scattered all over the United States. One sons in Massachusetts, one sons in New Hampshire in North Carolina my daughter is in Michigan so it gets a little difficult to have a family reunion. But thank God for the technology we can have it on their computer like zoom and everything. CM: Did you ever have a favorite sports team or growing up. LS: The what CM: A favorite sports teams. LS: Oh yeah, New York Mets. We were strong Mets fans. Living on Long Island. We used to go to as many games as we could. My wife and I, she's a strong Mets fan and even stronger than me. CM: Do you feel like you've bonded even more because the Mets. LS: Yeah CM: Kid your kids also decide to follow the Mets, or do they have their own sports teams. LS: No it’s a Mets. Always the Mets. CM: Always the Mets. LS: Otherwise, I came my wife, but I think she married me because I was a Mets fan. CM: Uh, did your wife work for living as well or? LS: Yeah, when we lived in Long Island. She used to be the airport manager with Bennington airport in Bennington, Vermont, and she enjoyed that. In fact, I have a private pilot's license and I used to have Brendan, I own the Cessna 150 so comes, you know, weekends I go flying and every once in a while. My wife being a weather person had to report the weather. She asked me to go up and see how high the clouds are so I take the plane and go 6000 feet. Oh it was interesting. Oh, I have a pilot's license. I did a lot of things. Growing up Just…. CM: Sorry, it looks like you froze there for the last second. You said you did a lot of things growing up to do stay anything after that. LS: Well, it's, every day was really an adventure. Got a pilot's license. I'd love flying. You know, private pilots, but whatever I can do, I do. In my younger days. CM: So, how did you meet your wife? LS: I was at that time was going to City College of New York and she was the Brooklyn College and we had a party. So that's when we met but didn't really get together with her until she found out that I had a car she stuck around. CM: Have you have any. What was that, sorry. You seem to freeze these LS: I was gonna say she thought I was crazy. Once I used to tell her I had my socks painted on my feet because anytime I took a bath is something watch the socks at the same time. I thought that she would just leave but never happened. CM: When did you get married, then? LS: 53. Married 67 years. In fact, October 24 was the 67th year CM: Nice. LS: Yeah, it's been a long time I was 20 years old at the time. CM: Let's see. Did you, uh. Did you ever take your grandchildren on a vacations as well or was that more just the occasional visit LS: Yeah, we used to go a lot to Gilbert Lake State Park. That was a in Otsego County New York, we have family gatherings there we rented a couple of cabins. But then as the kids got older, you know, they went their way. We went our way. So this is what happens. I got eight grandchildren and one great. CM: Hmm. So you worked at a plastic factory. You mentioned before, or at least some form of a plant, um, was there a specific product that you were making or just all variety of plastics. LS: It was plastics. Lot of work In a chemical plant. We had vinyl chloride, we may polyvinyl chloride. Plasticizes. A long time ago. CM: Is there a specific year at least that you can think of that stands out in your mind like. Whether that was a specific event. I'm not let's hold on let me rephrase that a bit better. Do you remember a global event that you can recall from whatever year you can, I guess? Think of like something that really impacted you? LS: Well, the only thing I can remember is I got a chemical burn and I was six weeks in bandages. So I went up as I was a plant manager at the time in this place to come to me and we've had some problems with one of the filters and as I turned away the gasket blow when they hit me in the back. I ended up in bandages for six weeks. But there's no scarring or anything. Thank God for that. CM: Thank goodness. Was that the worst injury that ever happened, or did you see worse at the plant. LS: That's the what. I'm sorry. CM: Was that the worst injury that happened at the plant. Or… LS: No, it was a work injury. CM: Yeah, I was there anything else. Did you see any other injuries at the plant that may have been just as bad or worse? LS: No, that was, that was the worst one. I used to run the plastic plant also. So I did a lot of experimental work and PepsiCola and PepsiCala bottles and we'd make different type of plastics and every once in a while, a bottle would just rupture. I do remember one point that when I was in a pilot plant. A gasket on one of the reactor just blew and just drove me across the room didn't get hurt or anything was just wild thing like slow motion when you request the room, but unfortunately, I used to take a lot of chances. CM: Uh, so going back to your college years. Do you remember a class that I guess inspired you to go into Chemical Engineering or was it just something that happened? LS: What was interesting because when I signed up. I signed up to be an accountant and at the last minute. And I said, no, I'm going to go into chemical engineering. I like the instructor guy was a Dr. Newman, he dismantle the German planes set to the war, very interesting guy. Unfortunately, he stuttered. So he would look. Write on the blackboard what his right hand and have an eraser in his left hand and as he's writing. He's erasing oh yeah to be quick with him. But hey, he's my one of my outstanding. Versus the other one was a doctor Kalani which we just talked about different types of materials. You know, you, you're bringing up memories that I haven't thought of and years. CM: Did you have a lot of friends in college, or was it more just going there for the work LS: Well, I went to college after. When I was stationed Walter Reed and I got out of the Army and I went back to college on the GI Bill. So gave me up to refinish shopping and get my degree. Was I had interrupted getting the degree to go as I was drafted so. But then I finished up. CM: Uh, What were your feelings. Once you find out you're being drafted? LS: Always my feelings of being drafted? Wasn't too happy about it. I don't leave home. I had to go. Well, you know, that's life. CM: Did you make any good friends while being in the army? LS: Yeah, I had, I had a good friend. But you know when I got out. He didn't live in the same part of the country that I lived in, and we just, you know, we lost contact its unfortunate but… very unfortunate. Know also blame myself on that because I never took the time to reconnect with any of these people, you know, just busy at home and it's more…(Internet issues) CM: So when you finally were able to be home. Did you do anything for, I guess? Did you continue your reading hobby or did you delve into other hobbies? LS: Oh, The time when I got out of the Army. I had, I was married, and I had a daughter was born December 30 and uh Walter Reed. So there was really not too much time to do anything. Just trying to survive at that point. And though we moved back and we live in a small apartment that too far from the folks area. It was nice. Then went out on my own and Got a degree in started to work for our first company I worked for was Dewy and Allyn chemical company in Cambridge, Massachusetts. CM: Did you just freeze or are you still there. Up. You're moving again. Sorry you froze for that you mentioned you worked at Cambridge and then I couldn't the picture. Stop moving and sound stop going through. LS: Yeah Well, it worked for the company called Dewy and Allyn chemical company. And they plastics were really was my forte. I really enjoyed. You know, trying to develop them and whatever. CM: So have the Mets brought you back for any. Baseball games or have you been kind of off the baseball trail for a while. Hold on a second, it appears that a connections a bit unsecure. So let's, I'm just gonna wait for that to settle down, be a bit before I ask any more questions. LS: Okay. I’m at your beck and call. CM: Thank you very much. Let's see, it looks like it's starting to settle down….. Okay. So going back to the Mets. Have you guys been to a recent game or I guess in recent years games? Or have you guys really just been able to watch from a distance at this point? LS: I'm sorry I didn't catch that? CM: Uh, have you been to have you been back to watch the Mets? Like, have you been there in person at all? In recent years, or have it has it had to be more at a TV viewpoint at a radio? LS: Five years ago was. We used to live in Bennington, Vermont. Right now I live in Saratoga Springs live in a 55 and over community. CM: And how'd you end up in Saratoga Springs from Bennington, Vermont. LS: Well, lived in Bennington Vermont first. And we used to come over to Saratoga Springs all the time. So we decided when I had the opportunity CM: To move here. LS: Now, I like Saratoga Springs. Yeah. CM: Did you guys come for the horse racing or just for everything. LS: No. Just, just because we like Saratoga Springs much better than Bennington, Vermont, but more things going on here. And then, my wife never liked Bennington, Vermont CM: Would you say Bennington, Vermont. Was your least favorite place to live. LS: I like Bennington, Vermont, and in fact I've, you know, I've lived in a many places. It's like anything else. And you can live in a big city or a small town, you can vegetate or be active and I enjoyed being active. I enjoy politics so. CM: What so you were a big follower politics throughout the years? LS: My what? CM: I was asking you said that you were very big follower of politics throughout the years? Yes? LS: Yeah, well I enjoy politics enjoy getting involved with the in Bennington and when I was in Saratoga Springs. I got involved with the politics in Saratoga Springs. LS: It just makes life interesting CM: Did you run for anything or was it just more support? LS: Than I will. I'm sorry? CM: Did you run for anything in Saratoga? Was it just more for support? LS: No, I Was a Housing, Commissioner, at one point. Well, five years. I didn't get that much involved. I say, mainly in the background. Now, it was a housing commissioner about 5 years. CM: Did you get into politics anywhere else, or was it just more Saratoga that you really were more involved with? LS: It really was just Saratoga. Somewhat involved in Burlington, Vermont, but It was just a different atmosphere. CM: Where you work in Bennington, Vermont. (Computer issues) LS: When? CM: When I'm sorry continue what you were saying before, I didn't realize you were still going. LS: I'm sorry I didn't catch that. CM: I didn't mean to interrupt you. I thought you. The screen froze again there for a second. So I thought you finished but uh what I asked. Afterwards, was Where did you work. When you were in Burlington, Vermont, or were you retired then. LS: Oh, I worked in a hooskicfalls. Short for company called oh Mitsui. Which made the different types of chemicals and plastics. CM: Did you know what the plastics were used for? Was it just general purpose? LS: General purpose. CM: Did you have a favorite company you worked for or were they all kind of just the same? LS: You know that's a very interesting question. I enjoyed working for a company called Dewy and Allyn chemical company in Cambridge, Massachusetts. In fact, that's one of the first companies. I really enjoyed working for me to companies, otherwise I would not have worked there. CM: Did you ever travel throughout the country, or did you mainly stay on the east coast. LS: Oh no I travel, I used to go to Japan once a year business movement. Mitsui when I worked for them. Of course we had a plant in Osaka. So once a year I used to go to Japan is to go to Tokyo, Yokohama, and Osaka. It was nice. CM: Did you ever take your family with you, or was it just you that went LS: Yeah, I always took my wife with me. CM: Did you have a fun time in Tokyo. I was asking, did she have a fun time in Japan. LS: Yeah, I had a great time in Japan. Yeah, I love the people there. I was very involved with them. When I worked for a company called Mitsui. Mitsui was in Japan was in Osaka. So I used to go there once a year. CM: Did you travel anywhere else around the world.. Sorry. LS: What do you say born? CM: Sorry? LS: And it was nice going. Yeah, I used to take the wife with me, so she traveled almost everywhere that I went, you know, any, any business trip I went I took her. CM: Did you travel and… What was that LS: That really kept me out of trouble taking the wife. CM: A. Is there anywhere else around the world that you traveled LS: Any what CM: I was asking, Did you travel anywhere else around the world. You mentioned Japan did you like go to England? LS: Japan. I had, I had a client in Sweden used to go to Sweden once a year. Was in Belgium. And my son. When he was working. He was working for… he lived in Germany. Frankfurt, Germany, so I used to go visit him. Oh, my wife and I used to visit him. That's when we were able to travel. CM: Did any of your kids decide to follow in your footsteps and get a chemical engineering degree. LS: Yeah, my youngest son is a chemical engineer my oldest son is a industrial engineer. So they both went into engineering, and my one of my grandson's an engineer also worked for Lockheed Martin. I told I wish one of them became a doctor or something so we can have in the family. And work they all became engineers. CM: So you mentioned that your kids live all around the world. One lives in Germany, you've mentioned where the. Do you know where the rest of your kids are currently stationed? LS: My kids are now? CM: Yeah. LS: Yeah, my daughter, which is the oldest is in Michigan. My oldest son is in Littleton Mass and my youngest son is in North Carolina Greensboro, North Carolina. So all scattered also and they all did much better than I had so very happy about that. CM: Do you have a funny story from when you were having to I guess. Take care of your kids or an event that really sticks out in your mind. From the time when you saw them grow up. LS: Well, the only thing that sticks in my mind now. Is one we were watching my grandson, and in our apartment, and my son and I was there and he had a dirty diaper. So we go over Bennington together. My wife back to haven't cleaned him up. As my son said we took crap from no one Let's see. CM: Did you do any volunteer work throughout your life or was it mainly just working at the chemical plant. LS: Mainly chemical engineering CM: Uh, this might be one that I don't know if you have ever been here. Have you ever gone to Disney World, or have your kids ever dragged you to it to it. LS: Sorry? CM: Sorry you froze. Again, I didn't realize you were still talking. Um, I asked. CM: Did you kids ever drag you to like Disney World. LS: We went to Disney World only once. When I took all the kids that was way back Way back. We enjoyed it. We rented a house out there and spent about a week on Disney. CM: Did you ever enjoy going to see movies and stuff Like that. LS: Ever what I'm sorry. CM: Did you ever go to see movies through your life or some point or even like Broadway. Shows or just shows in general. LS: Yeah, we used to go to some we go, Broadway, show. Unfortunately, we can always afford the top tier in a balcony. Never New York I assure, but we took in as many shows as we could.LS: My wife was a folk singer. So she works. She's worked with some group in New York City. CM: Did you get to meet any famous people doing that? LS: Famous people? Yeah, the only people I met was my wife. Both (laugh). Yeah, we met… can't think of his name….Earl, Ray James. Met him on a plane. Can’t think of his name, unfortunately. CM: It happens. Uh, so you used to live in Brooklyn? Then when you got older, you got drafted, then you went. Back to sorry I'm forgetting the name. It is. LS: Whose name. CM: Does you're trying to member my make sure I'm making sure I'm keeping track of the places. What was not Waltz, it's a. Walter reed that was it. You went used to live in Walter reed and then you went t Cambridge and then Bennington? LS: Yes. CM: Okay, just making sure I'm keeping track of everywhere. You've gone in that timeframe. Did you ever take any road trips anywhere? LS: Any road trips CM: Yeah, like a long times in the car. Going from place to place. LS: No, never. Whenever we whenever we travel, we either went by plane or by Bus, but never car. CM: Did you ever have to. LS: No that’s not true. No because we got married. We took a trip down to Florida by car I drove down there. CM: Did you enjoy your time in Florida when you went LS: Pardon CM: I asked, how was your time in Florida? LS: How much time in Florida? CM: How was the trip to Florida? LS: It was good. Those were the days when I can you know drive a car those distances wife also drove. We also had a camping trailer that I used to lug behind my car. So we did a lot of camping used to camp up in Canada. That was nice. CM: Was Canada your favorite place to camp. LS: Montreal we camped up there. CM: Did you ever take your kids camping. LS: You look frozen. CM: I think You're right, I think it looks like our screen, stop being frozen. Did you ever take your kids camping? LS: Well, yeah, we always took the kids, my daughter never liked it. But she wasn't we're not going to leave home. It was not an outdoors person. Boys loved it, of course. CM: Did you ever have a running with wild animals well camping? LS: Never have a what? Sorry. CM: Did you ever run into like wild animals? When camping like deer or moose? LS: No, I never saw any of those things. CM: You ever go fishing while Camping LS: No. I don't, I don't really fish. I went once with my son and equal fish those sunfish wanted to take it home for show and tell. Wouldn’t last anyway. CM: Did you kids ever try and…..Continue saying. No, no, no, it our connection keeps freezing up so I you freeze up and I think you're done. So I tried to ask another question but continue what you were saying. LS: I didn't catch it. I'm sorry. CM: I was just saying it seems that our screens. Keep freezing. So I assumed you finished what you were saying. But continue what you were just saying a second ago. LS: I'm finished CM: Okay. I was going to ask, have your kids ever tried sneaking like something bizarre into the show and tell classes? LS: Not really. Not really nothing bizarre. Everything was nice and calm when we went CM: Did all your kids go the same school or did you send them different places. LS: Now what? I'm sorry. CM: It's okay. Did you send your kids to different schools or did they all start in the same place? LS: Actually they wanted different schools, my daughter went was in Brooklyn, New York, she went to No, no, she was in Walter Reed. So they all wanted different schools. I know that. What schools. I don't remember. CM: That's perfectly fine. Uh, did you back in your high school years, get into any high school quote on quote shenanigans. LS: And I want. I'm sorry. CM: Did you ever get into any mischief and high school LS: No, no. CM: Okay. LS: Went to Lafayette high school, Brooklyn graduated from there and went to ccny CM: Okay, that should be about wrapping up our interview time LS: Pardon? CM: I was saying that that should be wrapping up our interview time it is 150 we started at a 1250 so it's it's been an hour. Thank you for talking with me. LS: Okay. CM: Do you have any questions or anything. LS: No, I want to thank you CM: Thank you so much for spending your time. LS: very interesting. Yeah. CM: Now. Okay. Uh, I'll stop the recording now. Let's make sure I can do that these tech things don't always go well. Second Transcription of Lou Schneider CM: Today is 11/18/2020. I am the interviewer CM and to view it in Luke Snyder, would you like to introduce yourself? Lou Schneider: Pardon? Cooper Murphy: Would you like to introduce yourself? LS: I’m Lou Schneider. CM: So, Lou. Are you find with this recording being used in our project at Skidmore, and possibly be accessed by the public domain. LS: Of course. CM: Okay, so let's get started. So you talked about how a you're in the Korean War for two years. Correct? LS: Well, I was actually during the Korean War situation. I was stationed in Washington, DC. I worked for the Army prosthetics research lab where we did research and development on different type of materials for prosthesis, which was a very interesting job. CM: So what would you say would be the timeframe from. When you first joined to when it finally ended. LS: Well, I wanted 53 to 5519 CM: Okay, so can you kind of walk me through the experience from day getting drafted to basically what happened next to when you were allowed to go home. LS: (clears throat) Well, I was drafted, but I was also married at the time. And because I guess because I was married and being a chemical engineer they station me and Washington DC, Walter Reed Army Medical hospital which I worked for the prosthetics Research Lab, which was good duty. CM: Okay, so you got drafted, you got brought to the prosthetics research lab. And were you given any training and then sent over as well, or did you ever actually go to Korea? LS: No, I had no training at all. You know, was I have a degree in chemical engineering. So they figured smart enough anyway. CM: Sorry, just writing down some stuff. Okay, so you got you had the medical not the medical the chemical engineering degree and you're just flown over. Did you have you ever saw in combat, as you told me before. They never made you do like a boot camp or anything like that. Correct. LS: Oh yeah, oh yeah, we had a go eight weeks of infantry training and then eight weeks of medical training. Was I was assigned to the Medical Corps. CM: Okay, so when would you say you actually got to go over to be stationed in Korea was that between 54-55 LS: Pardon again. CM: Sorry, what was the actual part where you got to go over to Korea was that between like 54 and 55 or was you LS: 53 and 55 CM: You fine. OK. Cool, cool. How many patients would you say you saw a day over at a in Korea? LS: You mean and Walter Reed work they're willing to read amputees. And research and development on different type of materials and now we're actually our test students as I would call them. We work with about eight different amputees that lost limbs that we're not the same, you know, arms, two legs. It was interesting work. CM: Okay. That's your wrap up that little segment. So, uh, what's the war ended did you, uh, did you remember the experience of finding out when people discovered the double helix? Just curious? LS: Not really, no. CM: Yeah, I figured. I just want to see that for myself. I'm a bio major. Okay. So, Uh, sent after the Korean War ended. You were alive during you know the whole space race. Correct. LS: Well, when the Korean War ended, and I got discharged from the army. I actually went back to school. And went back for my masters, but I never completed it. Married at the time had a kid, you know, it's very, very difficult. So how to actually find a job, which I did. I worked for a company called doing Dewy and Allyn chemical company as an engineer, in Cambridge, Massachusetts. CM: Uh, yeah, I remember that actually from last time. So going quickly back to the space race and everything. Do you remember like all those events like Sputnik and everything like that, and if so, how did that make you feel during that time period? LS: Sputnik? CM: Yeah, when the Satellite went up LS: Russia put the spacecraft. I really didn't think much about it at the time. Yeah, I figured that you know I’ve government knew what they were doing it. We're going to put up something also and I was not involved with it so didn't really care too much. CM: What about when you heard about someone was able to go on the moon? LS: That was interesting. I mean, that was the first to me to first have space travel to go to various places the various planets. It was exciting space is very exciting the space station was also very exciting. CM: I bet, especially since I was the first of any of its kind. LS: Yeah. So after the space race. Do you remember anything as well of like when the Cold War was starting to become more of a thing? Like for instance Cuban Missile Crisis. How did that affect you at all during one that was? LS: Not really. Not at all. CM: Just curious. OK, so moving on from that you mentioned that you got married a what time again did you actually get married at LS: Like what I'm what CM: What year did you get married again. LS: 1954 CM: Okay, and where did you say the wedding was LS: Wedding was in Brooklyn, New York. CM: Do you remember where you went for your honeymoon. LS: Well, I was in the army at the time and I had a week off so we stopped off in Rahway, New Jersey. The first night was it was raining and then we ended up in Atlantic City. And then, of course, I had a week before I was had to go back to Walter Reed. In fact, my daughter was born in Walter Reed in 1954. The fact, December 30 1954 CM: Okay. So you mentioned before and unfortunately wasn't able to get this down to my notes. You said that your favorite place was either New port, a Walter Reed? LS: Was what? CM: You mentioned that you moved around a lot in your life, last time when we talked, and you mentioned that either your favorite place was Walter Reed or Newport, do you remember which one was LS: Walter Reed. Fact, though I was stationed there for a year and a half, and the prosthetics Research Lab, which was to me very interesting work, you know, working with these amputees. They were our test specimens on the materials that we developed and we work with about eight amputees. They were fun group. CM: Do you remember any of the uh I guess. Patients you had like anything specific about them. Besides, you know, I'm being amputees’. LS: Well, there's one thing that always sticks out on my mind. We had a nurse that lost part of her nose. And she came in to be fitted for plastic nose, but we come back every week because there was a stain on the on the nose. She smoked so what we did is we gave her a dozen noses and said, go home and do what want. In fact, we had one amputate that lost his left arm, and he built his friend that he can swim beat him in one lap and no water in the pool at Walter Reed and we fitted him with a fin. So yeah, I'll tell you, we had a lot of fun. They were a fun group they didn't feel sorry for themselves. I said, this is it. And we'll do the best we can. CM: So, if you don't mind? Actually, could you give me like a walkthrough figure daily I guess life back when used to live and watery? LS: Well, I was married at the time. So we live off post and of course, I had a car so how do. (cough) Excuse me, actually I was assigned to Walter Reed, but I worked in a place called Forest Glen. That's where the prosthesis was. Every day we had a call for an inspection. At seven o'clock in the morning. That was about it. Was just a routine. My daughter was born and Walter Reed 1954 December 30 CM: And when you got home here. What do you normally do when you got back to your house? LS: In Washington, DC. CM: Yes. LS: Was it. No, just nothing just stayed with the wife, and we went to various places. I love this Smithsonian Institute. So we used to go there pretty often but till being in the army. I think we got a stipend of 250- $280 a month and we had to make that thing last I remember that she's we saved up so we could buy, one egg roll. CM: A fan of egg rolls? Are you a fan of egg rolls? LS: Oh yeah, I like, first of all, I like Asian food. CM: Can you remember where you tasted the best Asian food? LS: Where, what I'm sorry. CM: Can you remember where you test my bad, tasted the best Asian food. LS: Best Asian foods that actually were testing best for when I used to go to Japan. It's not the same. It's, it's, it's different. CM: Okay, so after working with amputees’ and everything you said you worked at a chemical plants. Correct? LS: Of work where CM: I'm sorry had you worked at multiple different chemical plants. LS: Work for a company first company was Dewy and Allyn Chemical Company, which was in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And then I took a job than on Long Island and I worked for a company called Rubber Corporation of America, mainly in plastics. Plastics was my forte. That's what I've always studied CM: Yeah. You mentioned that that's a quite a bit. And it's very interesting, too. But I want to ask, did you ever remember having to witness the implement of the stationary computers. Business computers into the workplace, like those giant machines on the wall that you plug in numbers to. LS: Oh, no. In fact, the first time I work with computers is when I left the army. When I went to work for Rubber Cooperation of America. They gave me a computer take home so CM: Cool. Did you like using a computer. LS: Yeah. Haven't been without one since. CM: Especially in this time I'm betting? LS: My wife has the laptop, of course, but I use the one stationary here in my office at home. CM: Yeah, I have a stationary too LS: I like it CM: Oh, let's see. So you mentioned. Actually, speaking of your wife and family and everything. You mentioned that you like to go camping, in Montreal. Correct? LS: Yeah, we had a camping trailer had a 16 foot. Uh what was it called I can't think of the name, but we used to do a lot of camping up and down the East Coast spent time of Florida Hollywood, Florida. I remember that, But I enjoy camping up in Canada. In those days you had no problems getting through into Canada. Long time ago. CM: Yeah. I've been to Canada. A couple times real nice up there, but I was gonna ask. Did you just like start camping out of a whim, or did you use to go camping before he had you got with your family and everything. LS: Oh yeah, when I was growing up in Brooklyn, New York, I belong to the Boy Scouts. So we always camp. And I just continue doing that. I enjoyed it. But my daughter never did. CM: So you were a boy scout when you're younger? LS: pardon CM: You were a boy scout when you were younger? LS: Oh, yeah. LS: Did a lot of things when I was younger. Some foolish some not CM: You got any stories from the Boy Scouts or was it just kind of a normal experience as you would say LS: Normal experience. You know, you read about what they what was going on with the abuse. We never had that in Brooklyn, New York. CM: Be my guess. I'll pause the recording. (Time passes for the phone call) Yeah, sorry about that. That's new. I'm definitely gonna have to talk to my phone provider about that one. LS: Interesting, though. CM: I know. so, uh, speaking of what is there anything about your life that you'd like to share discuss just anything that you thought you wanted to share from last time that you didn't get to? LS: I don’t know, growing up in Brooklyn, New York was an adventure because Coney Island was my stomping ground used to go there pretty often. And uh but that's really, that's about it. I enjoyed living in Brooklyn. My wife still has family there. So we go back occasionally, spent a lot of time in Coney Island. In fact, and Coney Island we were up on the subway, which is the L and we watch Luna Park burn when that the big fire. CM; Oh, yeah, yeah. LS: Then I think Trump put up his building or whatever. CM: So when I'm not actually I don't have to remember the date that have Luna Park apart burned do you? LS: What date. CM: The date when a Luna Park burn. LS: Don't even know how had to be in be in the early 50sif I am not mistaken. CM: I'll look it up later I was just curious if you knew off the top of your head. LS: No, I don't. CM: That’s probably fine. Well, I guess we've reached the last question, unless you have anything else you want to say before then? LS: That everything that CM: So if you had to give advice to, I guess, the current generation, what would it be if you don't have any that's fine. Just curious what you? CM: Great advice. LS: Have a sense of humor. CM: That is a good one….What do you think it's important to have a sense of humor? LS: What if you if you what? CM: Sorry, I was asking, why do you think it is important to have a sense of humor? LS: Oh, You can't be serious soul, your life and the lifetime. You got to find humor in everything. I think that levels you offer keeps you know basic. You know, if you don't have a sense of humor. I mean, like to be very boring. CM: Indeed, Okay. Actually, I did have one question. Did you ever go camping with your parents. LS: My friends? CM: Your friends or your parents? LS: No. First of all, my father came from Lithuania and my mother from Poland, so of course they do that, you know, they were of the older generation. No, we went most camping I did was with friends. When I was in a boy scouts or, when we got older and I had a family. We have a 16 foot trailer camper that we used to use. I Love that daughters and never did. But I did that the boys did of course. So we used to camp all the way up. Used to go to Hollywood, Florida. We camped up in, as I said in Canada. Those were the days when you get into Canada pretty easily, which you can't anymore. CM: Okay, well that's all the questions I had so unless there's anything again, you can think of that you want to add that would basically wrap it up. LS: I can't think of anything at this point. I think you did a good job. CM: Thank you. I hope my teacher thinks that too. LS: I hope so. CM: Okay, I'm gonna stop the recording. Now then. Okay. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lou Schneider Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 26, 2020 November 18, 2020 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Senior Memory Project Description An account of the resource An 89-year-old Koren war vet from Brooklyn describes his life history. From his time in Brooklyn as a kid. His experience as a medical core in Korea, and then finally his life after with his family as a chemical engineer. This interview was conducted as part of the Saratoga Springs Senior Center project “Preserving Our Past”. Language A language of the resource English (en) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cooper Murphy Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cooper Murphy Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Skidmore College Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio recording Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History 1950's camping Chemical engineer Korean War Medical Core oral history fall 2020 saratoga senior center https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/2fc93b3e6157a930e8ffa08fcb6e78dd.png dbcc612dbbc2df743200077e9a390e8e https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/d313d9143388f99bd63787eeaf548bf8.mp3 0e86f11a531aa5615c4cdde8b6892e80 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/15be95dd6f108a50094fb144222def95.mp3 e3148292b0095d1a77b998f992fc0519 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/e0edccae347b859ed50ec17d1c60bbdc.pdf cf0a4d6e6628e302568d61e0e2c0f9f0 https://ssmp.skidmore.edu/files/original/c468fb28eb29e5688a547a49a143aef1.pdf 255ed40c497818e0dffda4ea4657e15d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Langyintuo, Kevin Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Daley, Donald Location The location of the interview Zoom ( Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Kevin Langyintuo Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 13/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Donald Daley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kevin Langyintuo Subject The topic of the resource Retiree Oral History Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kevin Langyintuo Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Skidmore College Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Mp4 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 2, 2020 November 14, 2020 Description An account of the resource This Oral History is a retelling of World War II Veteran Donald Daleys life from the man himself. He recounts his childhood, his first job, enlisting for the war with friends and his later life. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Abstract A summary of the resource. This is the Oral history of Korean war Veteran Donald Daley. Facilitated by the Saratoga Springs Senior Center, we cover Mr. Daley's life from Childhood all the way to retirement. Baseball basketball Korean War Mechanicville Oral hisotry saratoga senior center Vetran